REPLAY: Timurids vs Egypt

[Shahed]

Hi Everyone !

I've made this replay and I think it should finally work!
It's working 100% on my machine. I'd REALLY appreciate if you ALL could download this replay and watch it and tell me what you think, PLUS if it actually worked for you.
Do the folowing if you have'nt watched a downloaded replay before:

1. Download the replay (<-Link)
2. Save it to your /M2:TW/replays folder. If this is the 1st time watching a replay, create that folder first.
3. Launch game -> Single Player -> Load Replay (or was it Load Game ?) -> Play
4. Take a screenshot of OR write down the Battle Statistics.
5. Take a screenshot of OR write down the Battle Results.
6. POST !

The purpose of this replay is NOT COMPETITION.
It's meant to be an AID for those who want to learn how to use combined arms cavalry armies in the single player campaign.
It is meant as a BASIC tutorial.

If the result is this, then the replay worked:



THANKS in advance for testing it out !
All constructive feedback always welcome.

SALUTE !

[Csargo]

[Empirate]

I had the exact same figures, although I dunno how to post pictures and am too lazy to find out. Good replay!
I would have played it much more aggressively. A bit of criticism, if you allow: In the end, you got a little sloppy with one unit of Tabardariyya and lost more of your Khan's Guard than necessary; and earlier, your mounted archers approached the enemy from the shield side too often - but at point blank range, that doesn't matter so much.
A very good "basic introduction", as you call it, for all who want to learn how to employ missile cav to fullest effect! Let us see more replays!

[Shahed]

THANK you ICHIGO !!!

I had the exact same figures, although I dunno how to post pictures and am too lazy to find out. Good replay!
I would have played it much more aggressively. A bit of criticism, if you allow: In the end, you got a little sloppy with one unit of Tabardariyya and lost more of your Khan's Guard than necessary; and earlier, your mounted archers approached the enemy from the shield side too often - but at point blank range, that doesn't matter so much.
A very good "basic introduction", as you call it, for all who want to learn how to employ missile cav to fullest effect! Let us see more replays!

THANKS for the feedback !
I very much appreciate all constructive, mature and helpful feedback, such as yours.

Nope, I would'nt have. The reason is to show command. To display controlled aggression. You have absolute control, you waste no aggression. You are in control, you are patient. You can be more aggressive but I wanted to try and demonstrate the ideal calm and majestic way. This is not about the game it is about your mental state. Forgive me, that's my Kendo training talking.

Indeed I got sloppy at the end, I have probably spent in excess of 30 hours just to get this replay, because none of them worked prior to this. I was fed up and tired. Sadly I was sloppy, I will try to make a better one. I did lose more KGs than necessary, I did'nt bother to change to shieldless side. BTW some now claim that shield protects equally on both sides. However as you noted at 10 meters range it does not matter much. It can be much better and I will try again.

I'd love to do more replays and movies.
If the replays continue to work like this one it would be easy.

Very much appreciate any further constructive feedback !

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

BTW if you like TW music, check this:
http://users.tpg.com.au/jdyck/index.htm#music
ENJOY !

[amoebe]

Hi

Finally decided to register. Anyway, the replay worked fine for me, though I had to create the map replays first.

You did the battle pretty much the same way I would - charge their archers first, ride missile cav around them and wait until your ammo is depleted because they can't catch you anyway.

I like using all cav armies (I saw your other thread about it), I remember at one point I had a 26 year old general called Orso the horseman because I fought so many battles against the Moors with only cavalry.

What I would do is take out their units in this order: missile, cavalry, infantry.
Always take out crossbows and archers first, which has never been a problem for me as the AI is dumb enough to let them be caught. (note that I am talking about pure non-missile cavalry armies - I like those more) After that it's basically just evading the groups of infantry and waiting for some group to be singled out, at which point you can charge them from a few directions which usually causes an instant rout. That last thing you didn't seem to bother with but I'm pretty sure you know what I'm talking about.


cya around

[Shahed]

Hi amoebe & WELCOME ABOARD !

Thanks for the feedback. Forgot to mention the create folder step in the guide. I'll edit it now, thanks for the heads up.

The end was a bit sloppy, it was the time when I was thinking to myself:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

**** Damm Is this freaking replay FINALLY going to work ??? GRRRRR !!!!

If you read the Hunters All Their Lives guide, one of my posts is quoted in there: destroy mobility, missile, morale.
Exactly what you metioned, standard operating procedure.

If you have any replays of your own I'd be happy to watch them !

[amoebe]

Just did a battle :)

replay

[Kobal2fr]

Amusing, and instructive. Of course, it's a lot easier when the other side doesn't have any cav . And when the enemy puts his archers ten miles ahead of his forces .

But kidding aside, I like the way you disintegrated the enemy lines right from the start. From then on it was just a matter of mopping up, one bite at at time. I wonder, how would you have fought that battle on the Egyptian side ?

[amoebe]

Cant find the edit button.

Anyway, I just checked the replay again, and the 2nd part didn't go the way I played it (different end numbers too). Is this what you were talking about with not getting replays to work?

[Shahed]

Kobal like I said this was supposed to be more instructional than anything else. It was an attempt to do a VERY BASIC replay to show what a combined arms cavalry army is like, and how it operates. Because it's basic there is no enemy cav, however in the last 15 or so replays which did not work I did 20vs20 units and various other combinations. In campaign I've played larger battles. I'd love to do a 20 vs 60 battle if only it would work, I can find a machine to run it on, but the replays don't work. It's a LOT of EFFORT for nothng basically if the replay does'nt work. I'm glad this one worked though. I'll try another one soon. I was even going to do it without enemy missile units because that might even be too complicated. I reason this way because of what I have heard, and it seems that very few actually use cavalry armies like we did back in Shogun or MTW 1.

Amoebe thanks for sharing that replay. You had a great score, congrats ! The replay must have played back differently on my machine because you lost a lot more than on that screen. I'm going to try it again later to see if it works 2nd time around. That is totally not my game style though. I think that replay is probably a very good example of what people generally consider to be an all cavalry tactic. It's also a very good example of the direction the game has taken since STW, or later MTW1. You'll never find me playing like that though, I'm too much of a missile heavy fan. The replays don't always work. Results are different often moves are different too.

I should also point our that this replay was not posted for competition.
I posted it as a help for those who don't know how to use a combined arms cavalry army and want a "tutorial".

I'm going to post a challenge seperately soon.

[Per Ole]

Ok I did the replay, got the same results as you did. I don't usually use cavalry armies, at most I have 3-5 units as support (flanking) and chasing down routers. The battle was very nicely done, except for near the end when you first charge those 2h axe ppl in the north, you miss-charge and loose 2-3 horsemen without any good reason too, as you could simply have formed up behind them and charged their backs.

Also, at the end you started to keep a prolonged melee with the 2h axe men with your melee cav, why not charge, retreat and charge again?

All in all it was a very good battle, and nice to see for me who don't use that kind of tactics; always handy to have a few tricks up my sleeve

[Lamprey]

Whoa, you beat the AI with an all cav army?

Someone ought to post a real reply (from a MP game) with this same setup, to see whether the tactics work. Anyone who can't get a heroic victory against the AI in that game is probably beyond any help the replay could provide anyway ;)

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Cool replay, Sinan. Not revolutionary tactics-wise, but that wasn't the point.

Also, it looks like the replay works completely. Was it Rome that had replays that could end differently?

What I want you to do is the same setup, except give the enemy three units of Mamluk HA's and yourself three HA's (any flavor). I want to see an all-cav army against a truly combined arms force.

[Kovvers]

Same results for me, was good, cheers.

[Sentinel]

File downloaded and was saved OK.

Your instruction 3 should read.
3. Launch game -> Single Player -> Load Game -> Load Battle Replay -> Load or Start.

At which point for me was displayed.

ERROR! This replay file is for a battle played with a different version of game data.
Proceed Yes / No

I selected yes and sat back and enjoyed your battle, which ran smoothly.

The initial charge on the archers when well. When they routed back through the infantry you used the Mongol heavy archers to chase down the routers, wisely choosing the alt attack to finish them off. Unfortunately when you selected they next target for these archers they were still in the alt mode and charged into a group of Saracen militia and Tabardaryya. This resulted in heavy losses and the routing of three of your units.

About half way through I was told that the Tamurids general had fallen. Followed two minutes later by the Egyptian general being captured.

At the end of the replay the Replay Finished screen appeared, but no Battle Result screen.

The results bar showed Allies losses 57% Enemy losses 97%.

The error screen at the beginning was proberly because I am running with only patch 1.1 and no mods. You I believe are using 1.2 with several mods.

I cannot be sure therefore I the battle I saw was the same as you intended.

I hope this information helps you and that you continue to post more of these replays.

Keep up the good work

[Doug-Thompson]

There are three things to look at in this excellent demonstration.

Patience, stillness and nerve.

Notice how Sinan uses his his melee cavalry and general's unit to draw his opponents in. Meanwhile, the Horse Archers circle around widely and close in.

See how little running hither and thither there is by Sinan, how he leads the AI by the nose past his well-positioned HA.

Finally, see how he is not using auto-skirmish, but his waypoint technique. This allows his HA to pour in deadly close-range fire combined with crossfire, allowing the quick destruction of each unit in succession and maximum effect from his arrows.

Basic tutorial, my foot. I wish I could do this. Bravo. It will be linked with the HA guide very soon.

[Shahed]

Thanks a lot for the comments guys ! I'm glad you liked it !

[Slicendice]

I'm surprised you had so few casualties. At one point you left your missile cavalry alone to be butchered by the Egyptians.

I was also surprised that you sent all your missile cav chasing routers when just one would have done the job. Also, if you were in a pinch for time you could have only chased them until there were only a handful left so they didn't recover.

I liked how you got up close and really hammered them with the missile cav. I was shocked to see the enemy unit disintegrate like that. I will have to try that.

I would have targeted the general's unit after I eilminated archer units. It's a lot easier to get them to route when he's gone. Is that taboo?

I don't think you used your heavy cavalry well. They were chasing your general around and when they turned to face your missile cavalry, no doubt perceiving them to be a greater threat, your heavy cav should have been on them and hitting them from the rear. 3 HC charging the rear of 3 of any units would have caused a cascade route.

[DVX BELLORVM]

The first time I watched the replay I got the same results as you, the second time the results were slightly different, with heavier losses on your side:




Anyway, the battle is great, I enjoyed watching it. You managed to show that mobility can be the key to victory.

The opening of the battle and initial maneuvers were great, only the end was a bit messy.
You are obviously very skillful at using waypoints, I'm afraid I still have to rely on the autoskirmish when using more than a few HA.

I was a bit surprised that you didn't charge the enemy's rear when you had the opportunity, which might end the battle sooner, of course with slightly more casualities on your side... But that just my style of playing.

It was great how you managed to position your HA along the enemy's path and lured them to pass right in front of them.