Pikes ! Pikes everywhere ! And not one bloke to use them.

[Didz]

I recently tried a game as the Scots (mainly to hear their speeches), and got to mess around with pikes for the first time. On the defensive, they're great, there's no denying that... But I have yet to find a way to use them on the offensive with them actually using their bloody sticks.

Well according to my hero Mike Loades the reason the Scottish were so deadly with their pikes was that they had mastered the art of manouvre whilst in a shiltron formation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schiltron

Although the schiltron is often seen as a principally defensive formation, it was not the defensive use of schiltrons that proved decisive at the Battle of Bannockburn; instead, Robert the Bruce had drilled his troops in the offensive use of the pike (requiring great discipline), and he engaged the English host on unfavourable ground. This was similar to the pike charges that brought victory at the Stirling Bridge. Bruce's new tactic was a response to a crushing defeat for the Scots at Falkirk (1298), when the traditional use of the schiltron failed in the face of English archers."[1]

He actually demonstrated this with a bunch of volunteers and movie stuntmen training them to move whilst in a shiltron and then charging them repeatedly with horsemen.

He beleives that because the formations could move they were able to trap English Knights between each other and annihilate them rather than stand around statically waiting for the english to bring up archers. Whilst at the same time because the formation actually had no flanks there was nothing the English could do to break into it.

[Kobal2fr]

Yeah, I know, and the Swiss also fought like demons and charged their pikewalls, which is why we oughta be able to use pikes in an offensive manner too. Hence my OP

But you remind me of a post I did a few days ago that go no reply at all : has anyone ever tried giving pike units the schiltrom formation instead of spearwall ?

[Slaists]

So far, the only way I get them to work in the game is by confiscating their swords as suggested before. This overpowers them a bit since even rear and side cavalry charges become deadly (for the cavalry), as the rear soldiers of the pike unit just turn and fight in spearwall formation (whereas they would turn and fight with swords if available). It is similar to a moving schiltrom mentioned above though. So, I guess, not that inaccurate.

[Jambo]

Remove their swords and decrease their mass by 0.2 or 0.3. That makes them effective and yet somewhat vulnerable. They don't take out their swords but they'll also lose their formation more easily.

[anders]

this fault in the battle-game is really a bigger game-wrecker than the 2-h bug. the reintroduction of pike formations on the continent by the swiss changed the way war was conducted, decreased the importance of noble cavalry, and together with the introduction of gunpowder paved way for modern warfare.

but in the game, this doesnt happen as each and every pike unit is totally inept.. it might be ok for militia pike to not be able to function as anything more than moveabe static defense points, but the swiss and landsknechts should be offensive units in their own right, able both to do the slow poking "phalanx" advance and full charges against any other unit with good results.