Reality Check for Operation Iraqi Freedom II

[Lemur]

GAO report on rebuilding Iraq. A noteworthy graphic:

[ShadeHonestus]

and yet the supply of electricty doesn't meet demand.

...demand for electricity has been stimulated by a
growing economy and a surge in consumer purchases of appliances and
electronics. In addition, electricity is subsidized in Iraq, which leads to
increased demand.

Does the increased violence include the increase in Al-Qaeda attacks against united tribal leaders trying to remove terrorists from the equation in building their nation? I believe it does. Has anyone else noted the increase attacks during our election cycle?

[Odin]

The GAO is wonderful because its often just the facts based on data available not politics. Yet another ringing endorsement for removing ourselves from Iraq sooner rather then later

[Gawain of Orkeny]

The GAO is wonderful because its often just the facts based on data available not politics. Yet another ringing endorsement for removing ourselves from Iraq sooner rather then later

You guys are making OBL look like a genius I bet most of these attacks are not on our troops. Arent US troop casusalties down?

[Odin]

You guys are making OBL look like a genius I bet most of these attacks are not on our troops. Arent US troop casusalties down?

Attacks and casualties are two different reports Gwain, I am generally suspect of anything that comes out of the government post Bush and WMD, but the GAO usually uses good data from what I have seen in the past.

[Sjakihata]

You guys are making OBL look like a genius I bet most of these attacks are not on our troops. Arent US troop casusalties down?

Does it matter if us troop casualties are down if the civilian losses are going up, you think?

[Ser Clegane]

Arent US troop casusalties down?

US casualties in Iraq

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Thanks thats why I asked. I looked and could only find an article stating they were down in march. Their not terribly up either considering the violence seems to have escalated. Again I wish the Iraqis would vote on whether they want us to stay or not. Please let then say go.

[ShadeHonestus]

US casualties in Iraq

Thanks for the link. I would add that with dealing with such small numbers (not meaning to minimize the human cost but in meaning the reality of math) the fact that "wounded" have not been released for 2006 or 2007 leaves the door wide open to degrees of increase if at all or even to a greater degree than some think it currently is. Deaths to wounds ratios are not always equally and absolutely proportional.


-edit-
So its safe to say death totals are higher, but the full picture of casualties is unclear.

[macsen rufus]

Aside from the overall increase, which is blatant, it also seems to indicate that there's a growing proportion of the attacks being made against Iraqi forces and civilians. Guess that's the civil war that's not happening, then....

Being as I'm not going to read the full 64 page report in the five minutes before I go home, do those figures indicate number of attacks or number of casualties in attacks? 5,000 a month sounds hell of a lot, either way round, so what actually constitutes an "attack"? And I'm sure Iraqi civilian population is sustaining far higher casualties than the occupying forces, so is, say, a car-bomb in a crowded Baghdad market counted as "one attack" along with a sniper's bullet ricocheting off a hummer also being "one attack"?

I'm sure I'll have a lot of debate to catch up on tomorrow morning....

[ShadeHonestus]

Excellent questions all around imo. Its important to know what things mean. I remember when deaths from regular criminal activity and even some natural deaths weren't being subtracted from daily reported "death tolls" with retractions and revisions happening on page 10002, eight days later. This report does seem solid aside from making all relevant and necessary definitions.

And I'm sure Iraqi civilian population is sustaining far higher casualties than the occupying forces, so is, say, a car-bomb in a crowded Baghdad market counted as "one attack" along with a sniper's bullet ricocheting off a hummer also being "one attack"?

Indeed, does an attack on the occupying forces that also constitutes civilian casualties and civilian targets and vice versa get chalked up twice or which is determined what and what are the criteria. Going to eventually read more than the first paragraph of the methodology used and hopefully answer some of these....

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Does it matter if us troop casualties are down if the civilian losses are going up, you think?

It does to me. As has been pointed out its to be expected that the closer they get to a real solution the more violence there will be. Ever hear of the Battle of the Bulge? Did that mean we should have packed up and left?

[ShadeHonestus]

Okay I covered the methodology and it just covers the scope of the financial reports as the primary focal point of the release. The graph above which appears in the release is provided by MNFI, haven't' delved far enough there for methodology yet.

[Tribesman]

I bet most of these attacks are not on our troops. Arent US troop casusalties down?

Nope they are up , both killed and wounded , so are the Iraqi military casualties .
So how much was you betting ?

[rotorgun]

It does to me. As has been pointed out its to be expected that the closer they get to a real solution the more violence there will be. Ever hear of the Battle of the Bulge? Did that mean we should have packed up and left?

You make a good point here Gawain, but I hardly think that the two situations are analogous. WWII was a far different matter from this little shin-dig going on in Iraq. I will admit that it is all about the national will to take casualties for the gains expected. So far, as this report indicates, I can't think if it is worth it. I certainly wouldn't want to sacrifice my life for such a miserable situation such as we have in Iraq. Yet still, we expend more lives, more treasure, more sweat-all for a country that could care less if we fell off the face of the Earth. If you feel that strongly about it, I'll be glad to sign you up with my unit, so that you can share the load any time.

See you in the trenches Gunga Din.

[Adrian II]

GAO report on rebuilding Iraq.

I don't know exactly how accurate these numbers would be, but some of the answers in this thread are much more interesting. Together they constitute a small study in denial. Posters touched by the affliction should (re)read Barbara Tuchman's The March of Folly as therapy.