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  1. #1
    Questor of AI revenue. Member The Errant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenian Infantry

    Hayasdan or Armenia is primary a cavalry oriented faction. They do have the advantage of having some decent mid level infantry. Georgians and Armenian medium infantry for example.
    The Nakhararakan Tiknapah are armored spearmen. Much like the Babylonian spearmen. They are a primary counter for enemy cavalry and can take a well placed charge by shock cavalry head on if they are facing the right way.
    What's important is the secondary weapon.
    Statwise your Royal Guard can double as both heavy speamen and swordsmen when needed. Filling a dual role as a cavalry counter and medium infantry comparable to Mardik Sooseramartik without the javelins.
    Without access to any pike units, armored spearmen are the second best unit to pin an enemy unit while either HA shoot the enemy in the back, or shock cavalry charge the vulnerable flanks and rear.
    You can use heavy spearmen like a phalanx. Just activate guardmode so they don't break formation. You won't get the bonuses of the RTW phalanx attribute but you don't really need it for this tactic.
    You can also use them to defend settlements. Don't ever underestimate a unit of levy hoplites or even cheap spearmen holding a busted down gate while the enemy tries to attack trough all that boiling oil. With guardmode on they will hold that gate against an army. I've seen plenty of stacks die uselessly that way. Armored spearmen are even better at this.

    "If you listen, carefully. You can hear the Gods laughing."

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Armenian Infantry

    Quote Originally Posted by The Errant
    Hayasdan or Armenia is primary a cavalry oriented faction. They do have the advantage of having some decent mid level infantry. Georgians and Armenian medium infantry for example.
    The Nakhararakan Tiknapah are armored spearmen. Much like the Babylonian spearmen. They are a primary counter for enemy cavalry and can take a well placed charge by shock cavalry head on if they are facing the right way.
    What's important is the secondary weapon.
    Statwise your Royal Guard can double as both heavy speamen and swordsmen when needed. Filling a dual role as a cavalry counter and medium infantry comparable to Mardik Sooseramartik without the javelins.
    Without access to any pike units, armored spearmen are the second best unit to pin an enemy unit while either HA shoot the enemy in the back, or shock cavalry charge the vulnerable flanks and rear.
    You can use heavy spearmen like a phalanx. Just activate guardmode so they don't break formation. You won't get the bonuses of the RTW phalanx attribute but you don't really need it for this tactic.
    You can also use them to defend settlements. Don't ever underestimate a unit of levy hoplites or even cheap spearmen holding a busted down gate while the enemy tries to attack trough all that boiling oil. With guardmode on they will hold that gate against an army. I've seen plenty of stacks die uselessly that way. Armored spearmen are even better at this.
    Certainly i agree that there is a use for Armenian medium infantry. In general they dont contribute much to my engagements, because they cant keep pace with the all important cavalry and for the reasons outlined above. But even for a mostly mounted army it is important--as you suggest--to have an anvil for your hammer (pardon the cliche). Your observations about armored spearmen seem apt enough. But I would like to ask whether the tiknapah have any stats that make them particularly good for this. As far as i can tell they are basically the same as the sooseramartik with slightly better morale and armor, but no javelins. You hinted that their two weapons are a useful advantage. I have to admit that i didnt know that there was a functional difference between the types of weapons. In my experience, the two seem to fulfill essentially the same role, and when ive wanted solid heavy infantry, i usually went for mercs.
    The babylonian spearmen, by the way, are really awesome. Regional troops like them are some of the coolest parts of EB.
    By the way, in my previous game, i never got the noble cataphracts, in spite of having huge cities in my home region. Have they been added in the last build, or is there some special condition?

  3. #3
    Questor of AI revenue. Member The Errant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenian Infantry

    Quote Originally Posted by dumuzi
    Certainly i agree that there is a use for Armenian medium infantry. In general they dont contribute much to my engagements, because they cant keep pace with the all important cavalry and for the reasons outlined above. But even for a mostly mounted army it is important--as you suggest--to have an anvil for your hammer (pardon the cliche). Your observations about armored spearmen seem apt enough. But I would like to ask whether the tiknapah have any stats that make them particularly good for this. As far as i can tell they are basically the same as the sooseramartik with slightly better morale and armor, but no javelins. You hinted that their two weapons are a useful advantage. I have to admit that i didnt know that there was a functional difference between the types of weapons. In my experience, the two seem to fulfill essentially the same role, and when ive wanted solid heavy infantry, i usually went for mercs.
    The babylonian spearmen, by the way, are really awesome. Regional troops like them are some of the coolest parts of EB.
    By the way, in my previous game, i never got the noble cataphracts, in spite of having huge cities in my home region. Have they been added in the last build, or is there some special condition?
    The advantage the Tiknapah have is the spears. They keep most units at arms length and have a bonus against cavalry. Their lethality 1.13 while their secondary weapons the swords only have 1. Sometimes however the faster attack of a sword can be more useful. Especially if you use them to assault a settlement.

    Mercs are also great. Mistophoroi Phalangitai are among the best hireable "Anvils" available.

    I learned to use spearmen as phalangites when playing the Sabyn. They don't have any phalangites and only get them as mercs. They have two types of native spearmen of whom neither is armoured. The Ethiopians are good as long as there are no enemy missile units around, but the bulk of the fighting goes to the Citizen Spearmen.

    The Sabyn advantage lies in their morale. It's much higher than most spearmen and levy phalangites. So even when facing enemy phalangites they aren't likely to break. With Guardmode on they don't break formation and I can use them as a native Anvil. Marching them to face the front of enemy pike phalanxes while the fast Red Sea Light Infantry go around and charge them in the back.

    The Red Sea Light Infantry is fast, have good stamina and axes, with a higher lethality than standard swords. So they can actually take on enemy phalangitai and break them. But that requires that the Anvil have enough staying power to occupy their attention for long enough.

    Alternatively I can use the Sabyn Noble Infantry, Medium Cavarly or slingers as my hammer. Ethiopian Guard are also good, but they can actually take on most phalangitai from the front. Those two handed axemen are some of the best assault infantry in the game.

    Armored spearmen like the Tiknapah can be used in the same way as the Citizen Spearmen. As a native Anvil to hold the line against enemy infantry and tie them down. Or as a counter to cavalry. In melee they are just as proficient with their swords as the Armenian Medium infantry, so you can use them for that too. And being armoured with good morale means they have staying power beyond levy spearmen, Peltastai and the cheaper levy phalangites. That means that whenever an enemy phalangite formation is broken you can fight them in a melee and will more likely come up on top. Only enemy elite infantry will give them trouble in a melee. In addition they are less vulnerable to missiles than unarmoured spearmen. They can even hold the line against units like Argyraspidai or Chalkaspidai, but you need to have someone flanking those cause the pike phalanxes have higher lethality from the front. And even armoured they can't take those phalangites head on forever.

    The Babylonian Heavy Infantry are great. In some aspects even better than the Tiknapah. They to can be used as an Anvil and cavalry counter when needed, however their secondary weapon is an AP mace. That means once they switch from spears to secondaries, they become some of the most lethal heavy infantry around. They are priceless in an infantry melee. And the spears mean they are less vulnerable to charging cavalry.
    Last edited by The Errant; 05-26-2007 at 16:25.

    "If you listen, carefully. You can hear the Gods laughing."

    Last words of Emperor Commodus. From "The Fall of the Roman Empire".

  4. #4

    Default Re: Armenian Infantry

    its difficult maintaining a cavalry based army. I mean with Armenia that is their specialty, but cav. is expenisve. (is your army usualy smaller but more mobile than the enemies you face?) Also say for ex. the Selucids have 10 phalanx units. and your armenian army has 5 horse archers, and a generals unit (cataphract) well if the selucid army is the attacker the AI will charge those phalanx units towards ur Horsearchers. now from the front its useless with arrows, and from the back you can do decent damage. So how can i try to isolate a unit of phalanx and concentrate all of my fire on that one unit. Im guessing ALOT of micromanaging. Also i find the javelin cav useles against phalanx even though they do do some damage from behind, they run out of ammo too soon.

  5. #5
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Armenian Infantry

    I have little experience playing with horse archer factions in EB, but I remember that one of my favourite tricks with Pahlava was to rush forward javilineers first to grab the attention of phalangites, then gallop HA's behind the flanks. I don't think I ever tried an all HA army except smaller ones against rebels.

    I also think that javelin horsemen aren't that useful when you can get HA's.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Armenian Infantry

    Mardig Sooseramartik is my fav. inf. unit when playing with the Hayasdan. They were called immitation legionnaires for a reason. Good training and some upgrades, and they can stand up with the rest of them.

    Of course Hye are a cav based faction, but that doesn't mean their infantry should suck. It didn't in real life.


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