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Thread: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

  1. #31

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    The "run amok" ability can easily be added or removed from a unit. I have not tested how this ability works but it may be related to moral eg low moral = more likely to run amok.
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  2. #32

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg
    Do you know this ability can't be utilised? Is it hardcoded? Is there some other way perhaps Nurgle could use the Rotting Cow Carcass? We could perhaps have some sort of artillery unit that shoots Nurgling swarms?
    Yes. No its not hardcoded. Nurgle dont have a unit which causes a similar effect so it cant be used. Nurgle units cause fear, that can be implemented.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg
    The crew is just graphics. I'd judge it as pretty amazing if the "run amok" ability can't be switched off. It's just a matter of finding the right flag, right?
    The crew arent just graphics, they're an integral part of the model and the unit stats. The game will crash if the skeleton doesnt have a platform bone to attach the crew to, which means unique skeletons and animations for each demon. Theres a min no of soldiers per unit which may mean having multiple demons, likewise making the crew invisible may cause problems with units being unable to target them. The run_amok is a flag, forgot about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg
    Bwian wanted two Marauder cavalry units. "Mounted Marauders" and "Veteran Mounted Marauders". I kept the units and just gave them prettier names.
    Ok, my bad.

    @Bwian, I agree with jargon here about adding marauders armed with throwing axes or spears, its in the rules, v little work and gives the player a little more tacticl options. Shouldnt be as common as the ordinary marauders though.

  3. #33
    Annoying Warhammer know-it-all Member DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Quote Originally Posted by Casuir
    Yes. No its not hardcoded. Nurgle dont have a unit which causes a similar effect so it cant be used. Nurgle units cause fear, that can be implemented.
    Sometimes life sucks. Thanks for the info anyhow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casuir
    The crew arent just graphics, they're an integral part of the model and the unit stats. The game will crash if the skeleton doesnt have a platform bone to attach the crew to, which means unique skeletons and animations for each demon. Theres a min no of soldiers per unit which may mean having multiple demons, likewise making the crew invisible may cause problems with units being unable to target them.
    Ok, so they'll have to be built from scratch. But I'm hoping modellers will think it's worth it anyway, please :) Chaos legions without greater demons is a bit like Spaghetti Bolognese without the spaghetti, no?

    Having a small group of Greater Demons isn't a problem. There's no upper limit in the army book on how many greater deamons you can have.
    Sorry you must have been boring. -Dr Zoidberg

  4. #34
    Annoying Warhammer know-it-all Member DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Quote Originally Posted by Casuir
    @Bwian, I agree with jargon here about adding marauders armed with throwing axes or spears, its in the rules, v little work and gives the player a little more tacticl options. Shouldnt be as common as the ordinary marauders though.
    I just realised an AI problem. The way the AI plays battles is that if he has any ranged weapons he'll use them until out of ammo and then charge with his infantry.

    This means that if the AI plays chaos and has got limited/shitty ranged weapons, he will buy them and he will use them. While waiting for his throwing axes to run out he will put up his Marauders and Chaos warriors in pretty little ranks to make it really easy to shoot them to shreds before he charges with what little he has left. This will make them super easy to steamroll. This is the reason MTW2 battles is no fun once you've got musketeers.

    For playability reasons I suggest Chaos has really good ranged units or none at all.
    Last edited by DrZoidberg; 05-30-2007 at 10:47.
    Sorry you must have been boring. -Dr Zoidberg

  5. #35

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Abusing the unit is a problem. A Chaos army of axe throwing spammage would suck. Would giving them limited range and limited ammo solve the problem? Make them mostly useless, more of an annoying scout than anything else. Also maybe put a cap on them on the strategic production level?

  6. #36

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    There are a couple of options when it comes to axe-throwing marauders. If the old 'prec' flag still works, then we would have a volley of missiles and then a charge.

    Failing that, we would give them a high attack value as a missile weapon, but only 2 rounds of ammo. This way, they would launch their quota of weapons very quickly, and then go in for hand-hand. You can set (as I recall) the skirmish state of troops by flags, which RTW could never do.

    I don't mind giving Chaos some basic ranged weapons, but I would limit it to thrown spears or axes. Heavy hitting weapons with a short maximum range, and also very limited in ammo. The MOC axe throwers just shower limitless stocks of axes onto the enemy...laughable! Just where do they carry all these axes?

    Anyway ... these are things I will test and see what works.

    Demon wise ... I have a few ideas. I have done some fairly extreme things with RTW units... and I think we can find a way to implement this sort of unit. It's not a priority though... we have a lot more core units to do first. Watch this space
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  7. #37
    Could be your God Member Abokasee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    So are beasts are choas in? are they a seperate faction, mixed in with the other choas factions? (I hope so) will there be rebels of them?

    And what ones will there be?
    Quick one down of all the ones mentioned in the army rule book (Including there TT Stats)



    Gor 7 pts M 5 (Can't change speed of units, so make them have a lot of stamina) WS 4 BS 3 (Not sure how to impelement this help with sheild perhaps?) S 3 T 4 (Treat a bit like armour)W 1, I 3 A 1 (Attacks) LD 6 (Treat Like morale)

    Ungor 4 pts M 5, WS 3, BS 3, S 3, T 4, W 1, I 3, LD 6

    Foe-Render (The squad leader) M 5, WS 4, BS 3, T 4, W 1, I 3, A 2, LD 7

    All those units are in the same group, and use a skrimish formation the Gors / Foe render can use 2x hand weapons (Big 1 handed cleaver axe or a big blade of metal more than a sword) Or a hand weapon and a sheild (All most be equipted with the same weapon set in a squad)

    Ungors have long spears and sheilds

    Special rules: Raiders (Just use the skirmish formation) Ambush (Let them hide in long grass and woods) Unruly (Whats the name of the thing which barbian units in RTW had which encouraged them to charge?)
    CANNOT RECEIVE MARKS OF CHOAS

    You can get away with having ungors and gors in seperate groups

    Bestigor Herd

    Bestigor: M 5, WS 4, BS 3, S 4, T 4, W 1, I 3, A 1, LD 7


    Gourge horn (Leader): M 5, WS 4, BS 3, S 4, T 4, W 1, I 3, A 2, LD 7

    Both have great weapons, and heavy armour, There renamed when they have a mark of choas:

    Khorne: Khorngors
    Nurgle: Pestigor
    Tzeentch: Tzaangors
    Slanesh: Slaangors


    Warhounds

    Warhound: M 7, WS 4, BS 0, S 3, T 3, W 1, I 3, A 1, LD 5

    Uses claws or fangs :)

    Thats the troops... I will muck about with the rest later (PM IF I FORGET )
    Now with transparent layers!

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  8. #38

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Uh oh, can anyone edit posts? May want to get rid of those stats ASAP.

  9. #39

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    If you look at the faction conversion list of the forums (Its a topic) I believe thats the final list of whos making the initial release for the mod. If there not there, then I can imagine they'll make an appearence in a coming release.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Hell cannons should be ok for any of the chaos factions, if i remember right they have a demon bound to it so it wouldn't be having a weapon do the dirty work for you but rather having a demon spew forth warp energy that explodes on impact.

    Just make them cost loads in upkeep so you don't have them rolling around with every stack.

  11. #41
    Annoying Warhammer know-it-all Member DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Why isn't the Chaos thread a sticky, but all the over factions are? The Dark Princes feelings is being really hurt now.
    Sorry you must have been boring. -Dr Zoidberg

  12. #42

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh and Tzeentch are, hopefully, now pacified. The thread is stickied
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  13. #43

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Hey I am new here, but am very glad to see someone creating this mod. So keep up the good work.
    If I might make some suggestions about names of unit, save us having veteran marauders. Call the base level thugs, as they were in the old days (Warhammer Armies 1989), then marauders.
    Like wise, I am sure I don't need to say, Warriors and Chosen.

    Also If I may make a suggestion about the Daemons, and raise a point about the inclusion of Greater Daemons. As a large stack of Greater Deamons is undesirable and debabtebly out of character, would it be better to tie them to guilds, meaning only one city could produce Greater Daemons, and at a relatively slow rate. It would also have the advantage of allowing the other armies access to their Daemonic allies, ie. Dark elves and Slaanesh.

    Sorry if this should of been posted somewhere else.

  14. #44

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    I do not think there is a really good way to implement greater demons. They are not 'units' ... more individuals, and that doesn't sit well with the M2TW game engine. Not 100% set in stone ...but I don;t think the greater Chaos powers will be on the battlefield.

    Expect all the lower orders of demonkind... and the human / sort-of-used-to-be-human ones too
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  15. #45
    Member Member Pantsalot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    It is possible to decrease a units number of troops to any number on RTW
    but I'm not really sure about decreasing on MTW2. So if there is no way to
    decrease a unit too 1 for the greater deamon then best not bother having them.
    Last edited by Pantsalot; 07-30-2007 at 15:58.

  16. #46

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Lowest I have achieved without a crash is 5 in the unit text file ( which is 6 when you include the general model ) for a soldier unit. On 'huge' you will get 12 ( 13 with general ) on the unit.

    No lower, I am afraid.
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  17. #47

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Muck around with elephants again possibly?
    Mod leader of Warhammer; Total War


  18. #48

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Nope ... it's not like RTW in this respect. Elephants bring more problems than solutions here!
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  19. #49

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Soon to appear in screenshots ....

    Elite Khorne marauders
    Marauder missile troops ( spear throwers )

    Next to build ... Elite marauders for the other factions, and the Chaos Knights
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  20. #50
    Member Member essi2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    cool
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  21. #51
    Member Member Taranaich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwian
    Soon to appear in screenshots ....

    Elite Khorne marauders
    Marauder missile troops ( spear throwers )

    Next to build ... Elite marauders for the other factions, and the Chaos Knights
    Eeeexcellent!

    As for the differences between Khorne/Nurgle/Slaanesh/Tzeentch: will the differences between, say, an Elite Khorne Marauder and an Elite Tzeentch Maurader just be different textures, or will they have different geometry too? Or will the lesser units just be texture changes, with the unique/elite units having geometrical differences (Khorne's helms, Slaanesh's spikes, Nurgle's bots and boils).

    I think a lot can be done on the textural level for the units and saving time/space modeling wise, but obviously the more "touched" you are by your chosen deity, the more different and outlandish your appearance.

    Also, will the different Chaos factions have their own general model, or will they all share a generic general model?

    "Know, O Prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world, like blue mantles beneath the stars...
    Is fhearr fheuchainn na bhith san duil.

  22. #52

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Generals are defined by culture, so they will be generic.
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  23. #53

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    As the models go up the 'scale' they will cease to be the same models. The basic marauder and chaos warriors are the same mesh with different skins. The 'elite' marauders are not. The khorne ones are geared up with a bit more armour and a load of 'spikes' and some Khorne type crests on the helmet.. that sort of thing.

    The Nurgle ones will be diseased, pale and showing more visible signs of corruption. Those of the 'Lord of Change' will be showing distorted heads, tentacles .... and so on. On the Marauders it will not be all that pronounced...but they will be varied for each faction.
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  24. #54
    RnJ PR Officer Member Eufarius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwian
    As the models go up the 'scale' they will cease to be the same models. The basic marauder and chaos warriors are the same mesh with different skins. The 'elite' marauders are not. The khorne ones are geared up with a bit more armour and a load of 'spikes' and some Khorne type crests on the helmet.. that sort of thing.

    The Nurgle ones will be diseased, pale and showing more visible signs of corruption. Those of the 'Lord of Change' will be showing distorted heads, tentacles .... and so on. On the Marauders it will not be all that pronounced...but they will be varied for each faction.
    niiice.

    Also are the tentacles going to animated?


  25. #55

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwian
    As the models go up the 'scale' they will cease to be the same models. The basic marauder and chaos warriors are the same mesh with different skins. The 'elite' marauders are not. The khorne ones are geared up with a bit more armour and a load of 'spikes' and some Khorne type crests on the helmet.. that sort of thing.

    The Nurgle ones will be diseased, pale and showing more visible signs of corruption. Those of the 'Lord of Change' will be showing distorted heads, tentacles .... and so on. On the Marauders it will not be all that pronounced...but they will be varied for each faction.
    This is really great to hear Bwian, I know the extra work will take a lot of your time but I am sure it will be greatly appreciated by all of us. The finished product should be great.

  26. #56

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Unfortunately, I don;t think the tentacles are going to be really any more animated than an arm ...otehrwise I am stuck with making
    a) A whole lot more skeletons and animations
    b) Making ALL the soldiers in the unit moving the same way.

    Great idea... but not really possible without huge amounts of work for a tiny detail.
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  27. #57
    RnJ PR Officer Member Eufarius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    ok Bwian thanks for getting back to me.


  28. #58
    Member Member lanky316's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Are Chaos going to ultimately be the one religion? I think that splitting the Gods into seperate entities is a good idea but of course, with limited options I wondered how you were showing the cultural things.

    apologies if been asked before, not seen anything covering this *blushes*

  29. #59

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Culturally, things are a little undecided, but in terms of gameplay, having seperate factions gives us some much-needed variation in factions up north.
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  30. #60

    Default Re: Faction Thread 5: Chaos

    Regarding different religions it is possible to have up to 7 religions in M2TW (including heretic). I'm unsure if the settlement details scroll has the space to display more religions.
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