Howard Zinn on The Uses of History and the War on Terrorism

[Tristrem]

Long read, but totally worth it. There will be a day when everyone opens their eyes, when it starts to affect their lives personally, and by that i mean a hit to the wallet. As long as people are not personally affected they don't care. If there was no draft during vietnam it would be like Iraq. The only difference is that "the government" is smart enough to realize they would face revolt if there was a draft. By only using only volenteers, it lets them pick their own fights where they want them. The reason for this is technically these people signed up to fight, and legally there is no getting out of that. Not that it is right, but that is just they way it is. just my

[Redleg]

Good old Zinn is always a good read. Some of what he says is completely accurate, and some of it is opinion based on what he wants to believe based upon at least an understanding of history and facts.

Good stuff, but you have to take it with a dash of salt.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I stopped when he mentioned "evil rich people." Around the first paragraph.

[Zaknafien]

you did yourself a disservice then :)

[Redleg]

I stopped when he mentioned "evil rich people." Around the first paragraph.

You really should read the whole thing - just filter out the rethoric that he uses. I dislike Zinn's politics but he is one of the best historians in the United States

[Zaknafien]

as a great band says:

"The Project For A New American Century"

It's a gut check of what you believe

A Global Pax Americana
Neo-con, neo-fascist blue print - USA hegemony
Charlatan war hawks, untried, untrue
Celebrate and exploit tragedy
To steal away control

And it's a gut check of what you believe
Will you stand up for democracy?
or a New American Century?
Endless...
Endless violence, endless hatred
Endless empire tyranny
Will you make a stand for human dignity?
Or never ending hate?

It's a think tank, psycho and crazed
War profiteering membership - a world catastrophe
They've got a war plan that counts on you
to kill for their corporate empire
while they sit at home

And it's a gut check of what you believe
Will you stand up for democracy?
or a New American Century?
Endless...
Endless violence, endless hatred
Endless empire tyranny
Will you make a stand for human dignity?

Are you going to...Fight Back!
Time to prove what you really believe
We gotta FIGHT BACK!
Until we win it all
We gotta FIGHT BACK!
Will you heed the call?
The Neo-Fascist race to war
The PNAC plan to rule the world

It's a gut check of what you believe
Will you stand up for democracy?
or a New American Century?

Are you going to...

And it's a gut check of what you believe
Will you stand up for democracy?
or a New American Century?
Endless...
Endless violence, endless hatred
Endless empire tyranny
Will you make a stand for human dignity?

Will you? Or never ending hate?

[Strike For The South]

We had to read his book for US history intresting to say the least

[Csargo]

as a great band says:

Anti-Flag. What do I win?

[Zaknafien]

hm, political awareness? lol

[Xiahou]

I stopped when he mentioned "evil rich people." Around the first paragraph.

Yeah, I tried to skim through it... I really did. But the anarchist/anti-caplitalist rhetoric is just too thick. I'm not wasting any more energy trying to sort through it. I know little of his historical works, but most of what I've seen him say about current events really borders on kookery.

And they have sucked up the wealth of this country and given it to the rich,

So wait, if they were rich already, didn't they already have the wealth of the country? Did they suck it up from themselves only to give it back to themselves?

[Zaknafien]

theyre sucking up more of it. look up the war profiteering thats going on in iraq. they take a 50,000 dollar car and burn it because a gasket goes bad, then order a brand new one on the taxpayer's dime.

[Crazed Rabbit]

A left wing rant. I read a bit, but I'm not going to waste my time reading the whole thing, especially with bits like this:

Washington had to send generals down south to use violence against young people to force them into military service. Soldiers in the revolutionary army mutinied against Washington, against officers, because there was class conflict in the army, just as there had been class conflict all through the colonies before the Revolutionary War.

Ah, good old socialism and class conflict. There always has to be class conflict, doesn't there? Just can't have someplace without it.

And then he mentions he wants to abolish war. He compares it to abolishing slavery. And then this fiction:

war solves nothing.” And I thought, “Yeah.” It’s not hard for people to grasp that.

Well, gee, besides fascism in Europe and a million other things...

Crazed Rabbit

[Zaknafien]

well uh, its true. read your american history dude. it IS about class warfare. most people during the revolution could care less about who they'd be paying taxes too--the "us" or the british crown. They didnt want to pay taxes at all. its the founding fathers (wealthy landowners) who wanted to rebel against their government to not pay their dues.