Suggestion Box

[Bwian]

Trawling through the various popular threads in teh forum, there are lots of people making suggestions, having ideas, and generally thinking up things they would like to see in the mod.

Some are good ideas, some are nice if we could do them ideas, and some are pie in the sky impossible ideas. But...they are all ideas!

Trouble is, things tend to get lost as a forum grows. Lots of suggestions are in the Eye Candy thread, others are in the faction threads ...but all run the risk of vanishing!

Thats what this thread is for:

Post your ideas here.... but DO NOT POST COMMENTS ON OTHER PEOPLES IDEAS. This is not a discussion thread..just a place to drop ideas that we may or may not be able to use. I will edit the threads to comment if an idea is possible or could never be done, and I will remove any posts that are not ideas....but are merely comments on someone else's idea.

This is purely for Brainstorming ... and you never know when a crazy of the wall idea might just end up possible!

Suggestion Summary:

Ellydog: Strong generals.
Possible, and something that will be worked in as our way of representing heroes and champions.

Bloodclaw: Building names.
Probably Possible. We are somewhat limited in terms of cultures as to how much building variation we can have. We will try to make buildings as unique as possible in terms of names, but there may be some generic naming forced upon us.

Jargon: a few suggestions!
Possible. A light missile unit for the mounted marauders is already made. This is listed under the armybook units as an allowable variation. Axes will be the weapon of choice, with a throwing spear to open the battle. Unit names are working titles, and will probably be fluffed up a little

Dr Zoidberg : Thread to collect names for characters.
Possible. Feel free to start one!

Taranaich: Lots of Lizardman ideas!
Need to research a little more before I can say how much of tis we can do. Whatever, the ideas you outlined will be helpful when we plan the makeup of hte Lizards armies. Lots of units suggestions which we will make use of!
The animated mouths may or may not be possible in the way you outlined...but I have done lots of things like that before.

KrazySigmarite: Officers as Heroes.
Possbile...and almost certainly the way we are going to approach this for the campaign play.

Dead Guy: Traits idea.
Meneldil has answered this one for you..and he is the guy whi is working on this element for us :D. This will be in there.

[ellydog]

Well just sopmething I would like to see; very strong army generals.

[Blood Claw]

Well, I am sure I will probably have more suggestions but for now there is really only one that I can think of.

If it is possible, to go and rename the buildings in the towns so instead of the barracks or similar thing, you could rename it to something that fits in with the army such as "Spawning Pool" for the Lizardmen or something like that.

[Jargon]

Some good ideas from the Chaos Thread:

A Chaos faction that kills the other three factions (or just stays alive the longest) gets the title Everchosen. Somehow link to getting access to all Chaos factions troops, such as by an event.

Add Run Amok ability to units with Frenzy.

Possibly make a light skirmishing mounted unit similar to Jinetes using Marauder graphics. Could act as a scout and light support. Be careful that they cannot be abused too much, as they could take away from Chaos’s heavy assault doctrine.

Think about renaming Veteran or Experienced units to something more interesting and with more flavour. Chosen, Battle Hardend, etc.

[DrZoidberg]

We should start a thread/document where we start collecting existing peoples names from WH. Any and all that have featured in any Warhammer publication or White Dwarf. It will always add to the ambience to recognise famous peoples names from the game in the mod.

...and sort them by faction. Minor rebel factions are also factions.

This isn't a major job but takes lots of time. Anybody with access to Warhammer stuff can do it and is a good thing to get going as soon as possible. Idealy we'd need some sort of wiki or common document we can all update together.

edit: Not only people but also creatures....duh..

[Taranaich]

A few ideas I had on Lizardmen, not high priority at the moment but I thought I'd just post them here:

Since there is a lot of variations in the Lizardman army when Blessed Spawnings are introduced, perhaps each lizardmen unit could be based on these for variety and aesthetics. They could be based on luck, or perhaps even choices for the player, or upgrades of the common-or-garden Lizardmen.

Saurus Warriors: Sotek (red skin/scales/crests. Strong, ferocious warriors)
Temple Guard: Tlazcotl (yellow skin/scales/crests. Patient and disciplined)
Saurus Cavalry: Itzl (Large bony crests. They release a musk that calms Cold ones, making them more controllable than normal)
Skinks: Chotec the Sun God (vibrant orange skin/scales/crests. Much more energy than other lizardmen, so would make great skirmishers and mobile infantry)
Chameleon Skinks: Haunchi (since they're so successful no markings have been reported, perhaps just shadows or black markings. Can pass through undergrowth and thick foliage with ease, making great ambushers.)
Skink Priests: Tepok (purple skin/scales/crest. Resistant to magic, don't know how that could translate to game: perhaps higher morale or resistance to fire)
Kroxigor: Quetzl (Bony growths and pointy bits. Hardier than other lizardmen)

Chameleon Skinks: to make them blend in, perhaps using alpha channels to make them semi-transparent, just for the aesthetic. Since there isn't a way to make units less accurate when shooting them, perhaps have them spaced out further than other units so arrows have a smaller chance of hitting. The gun animation could be used as a base for the blowpipe.

Cold Ones: it would be strange to hear Cold Ones neigh like horses, so perhaps use the camel setup since camels sound a bit more like big reptiles. I don't know if you can swap the skeletons to change the mount's sound effects, but it's worth a try. Would cause fear to infantry and mounted as a predator.

Salamander: can be implemented using War Dogs, but they probably couldn't breath fire, so unless some way could be found to do that perhaps should be left out. Would cause fear to infantry and mounted as a predator.

Stegadon: pretty much essential for a Lizardmen army, could just use the elephant. Someone made a pretty decent Triceratops for RTW, so just add spikes and a thagomizer. Interestingly the Stegadon is Immune to Panic, so perhaps they have higher morale than elephants, though I guess they'd be likely to run amok. They'd have four skink skirmishers on their howdahs, though a variant with a ballista could be made too. Would cause fear to infantry and mounted as a predator.

Carnosaur: not essential, but could also use the elephant skeleton. Perhaps not weighting the arms to make it bipedal, and fiddling about with the trunk bones might give the impression of its mouth chomping. Unless a specific mount can be added to a captain, or a one-person unit can be made it might not be worth it, but since a single siege engine has been seen (Monster Bombard) perhaps a single mount can be done. Would cause fear to infantry and mounted as a predator.

Generals/Captains: I think a Slaan Mage-Priest would be most suitable for a family member, and a Saurus Oldblood for a captain. Don't know how best the Mage-Priest would be represented, since he's largely immobile perhaps having him stuck on a big mechanical unit like the Carroccio or Great Cross, or a unique siege unit like the Monster Bombard. The bodyguard would be a beefed-up Temple Guard. Alternatively, Oldbloods could be family members and Scar-Veterans captains, with the Mage-Priest as a siege unit. Scar-Veterans, Skink Chiefs and Skink Priests could be officers, or very small elite units.

Other

Swimming: if the can_swim ability can be used, then the skinks, kroxigors and salamanders could have it to represent their Aquatic rule. If they could also somehow swim faster and not lose as much fatigue as human units, it could be a viable and interesting tactical option.

Poison: I don't know how poison could be represented, perhaps reduced moral would be easiest. Alternatively, if we base it on the flaming missile attack but change it so that they only "combust" after a few minutes, it could represent the poison taking effect and eventually killing the victim. Could also be used for Skaven and Nurgle disease units.

Drain Magic: Again, unsure, but could be a missile attack used by Skink Priests, and while the attack power could be negligible, would have a strong effect on morale or possibly energy to make the target unit more fatigued.

[Taranaich]

Darn it, I forgot to add this in the previous post but hopefully someone will merge these two posts:

To nab an idea from Blue Lotus' Koijin mercenaries, you could weight the upper part of a Saurus/Skink/Kroxigor etc's head to the head bone, but the lower jaw to the neck/torso bone. This could give a neat impression of the model opening/closing its jaws when in combat, looks particularly good when charging with two-handed weapons. It isn't perfect, as sometimes it can look a little dislocated and slack-jawed, but I personally think it's better than having immobile faces either open or closed all the time. A similar process could be used for other models with big nasty jaws like Skaven or Khorne Flesh Hounds.

[Krazysigmarite]

Something I've been thinking about as a way to implement hero units. Basically the idea is that the actual "Hero" will be an Officer model. The unit will be his bodyguard, hopefully the smallest possible unit size (20?). I understand officers for units simply use the unit's stats. Therefore, the bodyguard could be fairly powerful in combat, but small and very expensive.

For example, a Vampire Thrall could be surrounded by a unit of grave guard. The benefit of having the hero in the army would be firstly to give morale bonuses to surrounding troops (not that it would make a difference with undead...), and secondly to have a solid infantry (or cavalry, depending on the hero type) unit that will hold it's ground and be reliable.

The same would go for other standard 'leader-type' units - Empire Warrior Priests, Bretonnian Paladins... In fact, for game purposes, to represent "Leader-types" in Warhammer: Total War, we could simply give each team a "Morale" unit. For example, Black Orcs boost morale of surrounding orcs because they are disciplined, and the other orcs understand that failure to behave could lead to being on the receiving end of a face-bashin'.

Just some ideas and brainstorming, a bit scattered I realise. I just wish there was a nice way to implement hero units, as they play a very large role in Warhammer, and are very cool aesthetically.

[Dead Guy]

Hi!

I've been reading a lot of the posts here over the last few days and I'm very excited about this mod. I'm an old undead player, later Vampire Counts.

So from what I understand it's completely impossible to implement any kind of rarising the dead during combat, which I guess is no that surprising. People have been discussing letting undead hire cheap mercenaries to represent raising 'core' troops like skeletons. Would it be possible to give undead generals some kind of necromancy trait/ancillary that dramatically raised their casualty recovery? Sort of like how you gain troops in heroes of might and magic as a necromoancer, but probably it will be hard to make it dependent upon enemies slain... This may not be entirely WH-canon since it would affect the recovery of more powerful creatures like black knights etc, but might be an ok way to represent a winning undead army raising the fallen to fight for them again. Sorry if this was better suited for the VC-specific forum.

Keep up the outstanding work, looking forward to what may be the best representation of WHFB on the PC to date!

Cheers!

[Meneldil]

It has already been suggested in the Trait and ancillaries thread, and yeah, it will be done ;)

[FerrusTheBlack]

I joined this forum because I am quite excited about this mod and have been monitoring it (or to be more accurate, lurking) since it first popped up. Seeing how everyone seem to have opened up new topics instead of placing them here for ideas... I decided to be a good boy and post mine here seeing how neglected this topic looked =p

Not that I am sure if what I am suggesting applies to M2TW (i am still playin RTW)as I have as yet to buy the game (i am waiting for this mod to be finished....) but considering the aging of generals and leaders... What happens to all the elven factions, dwarfs, and the undead? My understanding is that the warhammer elves are immortal unless killed in battle (I need to reread the elven codex to be sure though), the undead and vampires are...well 'undying' and the dwarfs are a longed lived race though not immortal.

So if it is possible, can you make the elves immortal(as in long lived)? To offset this, you can have negative 2 or more to fertility as the elves were/are infamously infertile. All that goody/evil/neutral, uppity/sadistic/disinterest, civilised/fetish crazed/barbaric way of life tends to stunt ones sex drive.... Most of their armies are led by nobility and if you are elves, youre only meant to have a few armies anyway, not a stack horde.

The undead should not be able to reproduce since the tomb kings have more than likely, have their 'very vital organs' for reproducing stacked in a jar somewhere in the middle tier of the pyramid... However this is pretty bad if he gets killed so a bodyguard general unit should be made recruitable in their capital with the ability to gain traits but is briefly 'animated' for several decades before dying. (seen such units before though only in rtw mods). The tomb kings tend to boss around their dead subordinates so i dont see a problem with this though the general unit should be suitably priced. Likewise, the tombking should get massive command and administrative benefits to offset this and will tempt the player to use their king in important battles (i cant see a tombking patrolling the frontiers of his undead empire, can you?)

Vampires cannot have offspring but they can 'turn' people. This can be represented by placing generals on the wider map (sparingly of course and without an army) who are neutral to all sides and be bribed into the faction. If M2TW follows RTW in this then the character will be part of your family and can receive the trait 'undying' or whatever you want to call it the following turn, which mean they can never grow old but be killed in battle(though they should be tough). The carstein family can start off with a limited amount of 'old' nobility but most of them have been turned already or are VERY dead from their wars against the empire. Which means no offspring at all. However do you have 'man of the hour' events or something similar? In that case, a human vassal has shown his worthiness to become part of the bloodline and can easily represent him being 'turned'.

Dwarfs can live to several hundred years but must also suffer from infertility. All you have to do is make it very low enough not to be impossible but is goin to take a while before the dwarf gets a twinkle in the eye saying, 'its time to breed...' Or even better, if you can make him suddenly fertile with a 100% chance of having children in a very small time frame of his life, like when he is 300 yrs of age and becomes infertile when he is 320 yrs of age... (too much ale..) I believe 260 yrs of age is when he is still a beardling so that could be the starting age for the main dwarf king or some of his family members.... need to read up on Grudgebearer for that though. The king should be older than 260 though so the closer he is to producing an heir the better. Infact this idea can also be applied to the elves but altered slightly to make it more race specific and unique... but I cant elaborate at the moment because it is 5am in the morning and I am wondering what the hell am i doing up so late..

Of course the coming of age for both dwarfs and elves should be affected though not too long. 80-100 years should be enough for both although it won't be strictly fluff wise. few people could wait beyond or even to the 80-100 yr benchmark unless they were true warhammer fluff addicts.

Well thats about it because I am very brain dead at the moment. I have more ideas but i reckon its time for a nap.

[Bwian]

Good ideas :D, and a subject we will need to give thought to before we are done

[FerrusTheBlack]

Just checked up on "Grudgebearer" And it seemed 50 yrs of age is considered a beardling by the dwarfs, but the first time (i believe) that the holding's prince fought in a battle... bah this is a headache. Need more research...

Reading "Gilead's Blood", an elven novel, and 27yrs of age was the first time that gilead's brother fought.

So yea... it seems that i confused the dwarfs and elves of warhammer with some other fantasy novels. Oh well =p

[Anarion]

More armour to the people!

[Casuir]

Aging and all factors involving it are global, they cant be set by faction or culture.

[Rogu3granny]

Hi i was just wondering will you be altering the speeches for the factions as well, giving them their own persona ?

[DrZoidberg]

Hi i was just wondering will you be altering the speeches for the factions as well, giving them their own persona ?

I'm sure that if you would take it on yourself it would be more than welcome. So far we don't have a person doing custom sounds on board. It would be greatly appreciated if somebody would take the challenge.

[Dave1984]

Has it been possible to change the sounds and voices in M2TW so far then?

I'd be up for auditioning as well then ;)

[Rogu3granny]

i havent got a clue about modding but if you point me in the right direction i would give it a stab

[ellydog]

Well would it possible to make this mod as challenging as possible? I hate in medieval toalwar how its just winning... Mabye make the evil forces more aggressive in battle and on the campaign map.

[DrZoidberg]

Well would it possible to make this mod as challenging as possible? I hate in medieval toalwar how its just winning... Mabye make the evil forces more aggressive in battle and on the campaign map.

Making it harder is a wonderful suggestion. I'm all for that. But since the evil forces are playable it isn't much of an improvement. But harder is good.

[Bwian]

That's really doen to the game balancing. It's too easy to build up a large army stack that the AI cannot counter and rampage across the map. We plan to make things a bit more balanced, with powerful units being expensive to maintain to try and force tactical decisions on the player.

[uanime5]

Give all factions large but basic armies at the start of the game (especially the rebels), to make it difficult to conquer large amounts of land early on (like in the Long Road 2.0). The cost of the armies can be offset by the value of the King's purse.

Alternatively we could ask Byg if we can incorporate his 'Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command' mod into our mod (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=108335). This mod penalises the player for being away from their own lands and requires that they maintain supplies or face troop desertion.

[DrZoidberg]

Since we have a good selection of Empire and a fair selection of Tomb Kings. Why not start making a historical battle? It can be a small one. Like a taster of things to come.

Would be nice having a small powerful army of Empire troops, against a vast but weak skeleton army spreading fear, backed up by a bone giant.

[Gnashfang]

Okay I have a few, probably already been mentioned by others somewhere on the forum but oh well, and I mentioned some of the Orc ones on a different thread

-- A crusade for Orcs, a WAAAGH!!

-- I personally think the Orcs should start out small, representing one tribe of them *Because I think the orcs starting out one big united green thing on the map is very difficult* and you give all the other orc regions to Orc rebels that you could conquer and basically absorb.

-- For Orcs, make more settlements prone to riot because they're orcs, they like to fight, and don't tend to have many big cities besides what they conquer anyway.

-- Animosity between the greenskins if possible.

-- Night Goblin berserkers, basically just add an ability button or something that triggers them to Run Amock, when they're doing so they're harder to kill than they are when they're not running amock, but of course can turn around and smash your own lines in.

-- Maybe a morale decrease when Night Goblins are fighting during the day, and a morale increase for them during Night Battles.

-- Make it so that Orcs have very high morale when in combat *How often does an orc want to run off?* and I assume Undead shouldn't have Morale at all. Perhaps if the Undead general dies all the troops should suddenly get terrible morale, which gives more of an incentive to take out the undead leader. Also, maybe, if you don't have a leader for your larger undead hordes, they would all start dying again? *In the form of Desertion*

-- I would love you forever if you can make all the Orcs scream "WAAAGH!!" when they charge.

[Enthes]

i agree with makking it hard for the good guys to win as such but dont wanna make it to easy when you play as the bad guys aswell

also i dont want an epic grind to build building that allow more advanced units like knights and swordmasters and such in your home cities it should take a while in other cities but i think you should start with most of the buildings.

[Gnashfang]

Yeah maybe make the Orcs start with small towns, but a big army. So basically, you either need to conquer bigger towns or disband... And who in their right minds would rather disband their big army than go take Altdorf? It also sort of makes you start off with a Waaagh! and give you more incentive to be offensive from the start.

[alexader]

i want to make a suggestion about the elves.in the new rules,all the infantry of the high elves fights first(always strike first rule).would you plan to include that?maybe the will fight more fast,or something like that.

[A Norseman]

Some suggestinons..

Vampire counts obiouly does not make children, they bite people.
In kingdoms Teotonic campain, teotonics only get new generals through adoption..
I think that "a canidate for undeath" (with a picture of a vampire delivering the bite) will be the best option.

The Elven general must be a powerfull but rare commander. In the warhammer world, its a utter disaster when a high elf prince dies.

[Jubal_Barca]

Can tunneling be done for miners and rats?