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Thread: Is Science the new relgion?

  1. #1
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Is Science the new relgion?

    Do people put too much faith in science? Dont we in the west consider most if not all other "sciences" heresy? The same for scientists whos findings dont agree with mainstream thought(dogma) Heres a few articles delving into the topic.

    Modern Man's Religion
    Science is the modern man's religion, without a god, or morality, but it has all the qualities of an oppressive religion. It can pursue the goal to advance science, that is the institution, rather than the search for knowledge. The following examples illustrate how a theoretical dogma is held in the face of clear counter evidence, the characteristic of religious fanaticism in science. The main point is that the human tendency to persist in holding false beliefs even when the consequences are harmful to themselves and others is found even in science, where its essence is to acquire knowledge through experiment!

    Ex-communication


    Boris Pavlovitch Belousov performed the key work on this chemical reaction while head of the laboratory of biophysics attached to the Soviet Ministry of Health in the early 1950s. During his research he concocted a mixture of chemicals meant to resemble and so throw further light on aspects of the Kreebs cycle, a metabolic pathway by which living cells break down foodstuffs into energy. Belousov's experiment contained a mixture of chemicals to mimic the reaction. To his amazement, the solution started to oscillate between being colourless and of a yellow hue. This might not sound earth shattering, but it was totally against all theoretical expectations. However, 'its antics turn out to resemble nothing foreseen in the thirty years devoted to the subject by theoretical chemists and biologists'. Unfortunately for Belousov, the reaction was so peculiar that he had great trouble in convincing the scientific establishment. In 1951 a manuscript of his work was rejected. The editor told him that his 'supposedly discovered discovery was quite impossible. Belousov submitted other reports, only to have them published in obscure publications, often in drastically abbreviated forms. The scientific establishment was so besotted with the simplistic interpretation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics - order decaying uniformly to disorder - that no one was prepared to accept Belousov's reports. People thought the second law said that a chemical reaction always heads for degenerate equilibrium. A chemical clock which switches between two colours implies that the reaction is somehow turning back on itself, a travesty of the Second Law. (In fact, Belousov was not the first to suffer from this misinterpretation. The discovery of an oscillating chemical reaction in the conversion of hydrogen peroxide to water by William Bray of the University of California at Berkeley in 1921 was dismissed as an artefact caused by poor experimental procedure.) In the ensuing years, the scientific community began to discover just how important Belousov's work was. Unfortunately, Belousov died in 1970, before receiving his deserved international recognition for his work. The discovery of Belousov and the many variants subsequently developed have together come to be known as the Belousov-Zhabotinsky (BZ) reaction.

    Science is about experiment, but only as long as the experiments support the current theories! If the current dogma is threatened, then all the powers of religion are used to stop the heresy.

    Science vs. Religion


    A view from Islam

    The Real Meaning of Science

    To see the reasons why accepting science as the only guide is wrong, first it should be grasped what science is and what science is not.

    For the ones who support the idea that science is the guide, science is absolute, and independent from all the cultures, all ideologies and beliefs. According to this, science is the universal criteria different than all other sources of knowledge. It is the centre of everything, and everything should be regulated accordingly.

    The deception is at this point. Contrary to the propagation, there is no such constant and 'universal' science above religion, cultures and ideologies. Science is not a universal guide, contrarily, science is guided.

    The "paradigm" concept of American science philosopher Thomas Kuhn explains it clearly. According to Kuhn, who is not semi-positivist like Popper, all kind of science are built on a series of some presumptions. The general theoretical conjectures, rules and technics that are made up by the people in science and their applications constitute "paradigm". Until a new scientific fact comes up, this paradigm will be valid, but later it will definitely collapse. For example Newton's scientific hypothesis is a scientific paradigm. With the rise of Einstein's paradigm that is valid today, Newton's paradigm lost its validity. This means: when a new scientific crisis appears, this paradigm will lose its validity too. The important point is that paradigms cannot be stated as a general law. Paradigm is nothing but conjecture that is accepted to be true for a temporary period of time.The scientists who take science as their guide and their followers accept a certain paradigm as being the absolute truth, hence in fact they take a conjecture as their guide. The Qur'an points out that the unbelievers:

    "....follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!"

    (Quran, 53:23)
    The Religion of Modern Science
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    EB II Romani Consul Suffectus Member Zaknafien's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    I would say most people are coming around to the uselessness of religion and fairy tales as we more and more understand the universe we live in today with science and fact. We no longer need obscure mythical explanations for things, because the universe and science in themselves are far wondrous enough to keep us occupied with our imaginations. its an evolution of mankind.


    "urbani, seruate uxores: moechum caluom adducimus. / aurum in Gallia effutuisti, hic sumpsisti mutuum." --Suetonius, Life of Caesar

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    Its obvious you did not read the article and are one of the faithful.
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    EB II Romani Consul Suffectus Member Zaknafien's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    I did read the article but dont find it disturbing. people are stubbon, its human nature. Its like the long war between those who believed there were 8 dimensions and those who believed there were 9. Now we know there are 9 in fact, the other side was wrong. big deal. as long as we learn, we're progressing.


    "urbani, seruate uxores: moechum caluom adducimus. / aurum in Gallia effutuisti, hic sumpsisti mutuum." --Suetonius, Life of Caesar

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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    well it seems the young generations seem to care less. but..
    from St. Augustines philosohphies, "For, with the exception of a few in whom nature is excessivley depraved, the whole human race confesses God to be the author of the world." things are still not explained by science. such as this, "what created the world?" "the big bang." "what started the big bang?" for example. (i only believe in Adam and Eve creation but this is something science cannot explain) and the stigmata. of course many are proven self-inflicted and others well...

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    I did read the article but dont find it disturbing
    Then may I suggest you the worlds fastest reader? And did you read them both? Just because you discover how something works doesnt mean someone else didnt invent it. We even call the science of other cultures junk.
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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    Science lacks some of the key characteristics of a religion. There is no leap of faith; there are no unseen spirits, saints or supernatural creatures; God is neither proved nor disproved; and every belief is open to disputation. There is a conspicuous lack of holy texts, and those ideas that are widely accepted draw the most regular challenges.

    Doesn't really sound at all like a religion to me.

    Scientists are people, however, and they're just as susceptible to group-think as anybody else. Belousov's problems sound like a classic example of a guy challenging the orthodoxy and getting smacked up for it. This can happen in any field, religious or otherwise. An economist with a radical idea would face the same problem -- does that make economics a religion? A taxidermist with a radical new method for stuffing and mounting birds would face a backlash -- does that make taxidermy a religion?

    The articles are well-written, but they are aiming for a false-equivalence fallacy. (Everybody has ideas. All ideas are just ideas, and nobody can declare which one is better. Therefore my idea that Gawain is a flock-intelligence of sapient Roombas is as good an idea as any other.)

    -edit-

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain's Islamic Science Article
    With the rise of Einstein's paradigm that is valid today, Newton's paradigm lost its validity.
    Wrong. Newtonian physics are just fine, thank you very much, and we all appreciate having them. They only go out the window in certain macro- and micro-environments.
    Last edited by Lemur; 05-28-2007 at 01:10.

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    Science lacks some of the key characteristics of a religion
    So We lack many of the characteristics of monkeys but were still mammals. All those things you mentioned were mentioned in the article.

    The point is we believe western science to the exclusion of all else. On top of that we set the rules as to what constitutes science. Anything that does not go with our consensus is heresy until proven wrong. And as has been demonstrated it sometimes takes a while for that to happen. Dont get me wrong Im a firm believer in the scientific principle. All science is , is our best guess at the time. To take it as anything more is a leap of faith and hence like a religion.
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    EB II Romani Consul Suffectus Member Zaknafien's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    science is all about enabling people. religion is only about restricting people. they are diametrically opposed. religion is the realm of the ignorant and frightened, while science is the realm of those who want to know just to know.


    "urbani, seruate uxores: moechum caluom adducimus. / aurum in Gallia effutuisti, hic sumpsisti mutuum." --Suetonius, Life of Caesar

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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    So We lack many of the characteristics of monkeys but were still mammals. All those things you mentioned were mentioned in the article.
    The differentiation between groupthink and religion is addressed by neither article. In fact, the first one draw a false equivalence between them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    The point is we believe western science to the exclusion of all else.
    Please cite examples of other sciences that are treated unfairly. Last I checked, there's serious research going into proving/disproving things as diverse as ki, Chinese herbalism, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    All science is , is our best guess at the time. To take it as anything more is a leap of faith and hence like a religion.
    "Best guess" is the misleading part of that statement. You start by guessing, you progress by testing, you finish by having other people reproduce your work so's they know you're not on crack.

    I'm not aware of any religion that allows all of its tenets to be challenged. Even Buddhism has some holy cows. The "science is religion" meme is as false now as it was in Darwin's day. (Which is not to say that there aren't some misguided souls for whom science is religion, but I don't think they count any more than the people for whom chocolate is religion.)

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    EB II Romani Consul Suffectus Member Zaknafien's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    right. Also, science tells you it is only a "theory" until it is proven. Religion claims to be fact when in reality its just an imaginative fairy tale.


    "urbani, seruate uxores: moechum caluom adducimus. / aurum in Gallia effutuisti, hic sumpsisti mutuum." --Suetonius, Life of Caesar

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    Evil Sadist Member discovery1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    I haven't read the article, but that's probably unimportant.

    Lemur is dead on about what science is(guess, check the guess, other people check so that you are a quack), but how many people actually do the testing for themselves, rather then just take what 'the scientist' tells them as a matter of faith?


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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    Science is indeed the new religion.

    Science absolutely does require constant leaps of faith, despite the fact that people have generally been desensitized to those leaps of faith and do not recognize them due to how "scientists" casually yet relentlessly promote their propaganda constantly into all aspects of the average joe's life, from a very young age.

    Ie: Any any "science" television show will say things like "150 million years ago, thus and so happened". As if they know that as a fact. When really they have no proof whatsoever that the Earth was around that long ago but rather they only have their faith that it was based on what other men have told them.

    Science is merely the "hip" religion of the modern age since it is the only religion that supports secular humanism and evil ways of life which due to man's sin nature, is what man "wants" despite it not being good.
    Last edited by Navaros; 05-28-2007 at 01:56.

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    Science is all about enabling people. religion is only about restricting people. they are diametrically opposed.
    Doesnt every religion claim to enable people? How did the christians who led the civil rights movement restrict people? The US is founded on christian principles(this will draw fire ) You confuse organized churches with the religions they claim to represent.

    religion is the realm of the ignorant and frightened, while science is the realm of those who want to know just to know.
    There you. Anyone who doesnt believe as you is either a fool or a heretic. Scientist KNOW very little. Especially when you consider how much there is they dont know. Yet you are willing to follow them as if there word were gods.

    Please cite examples of other sciences that are treated unfairly. Last I checked, there's serious research going into proving/disproving things as diverse as ki, Chinese herbalism, etc.
    That indeed is a recent development. Still until they are proven to our liking their junk-heresy.

    'm not aware of any religion that allows all of its tenets to be challenged. Even Buddhism has some holy cows.
    Sounds like the Global warming cult

    "Best guess" is the misleading part of that statement. You start by guessing, you progress by testing, you finish by having other people reproduce your work so's they know you're not on crack.
    Religion has developed over similar lines or do you think the bible is an original document containing only old jewish tales? I want to see you reproduce global warming other than on some computer program designed by who? Scientists?
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    EB II Romani Consul Suffectus Member Zaknafien's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    Humanism is far superior to any religion that's ever graced this earth. Religion ruins everything and has caused more suffering in human history than any political extremism. Religion only restricts people --dont do this, dont do that, "God" said so. Its ridiculous. Science enables people by helping them live longer, fuller lives, and expands our understanding of the universe in which we live.


    "urbani, seruate uxores: moechum caluom adducimus. / aurum in Gallia effutuisti, hic sumpsisti mutuum." --Suetonius, Life of Caesar

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    Religion without political power behind it is pretty much helpless. Look at christianity before Rome took up the cross.
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaknafien
    Also, science tells you it is only a "theory" until it is proven. Religion claims to be fact when in reality its just an imaginative fairy tale.
    Yet trying saying to most "scientists" that evolution is not a fact and they will be up in arms in a religious fervor instantly. And definitely won't agree that evolution is a theory, as the possibility of evolution not being a fact deeply insults their religious beliefs.

    Science is in a large part based on fairy tales made up based on arrogant mens' best guesses & wild speculations about what they think is reality. Often for things that are way beyond their realm of comprehension yet they must "come up with an answer" for the sake of having an answer. When no provable answer exists, they simply fabricate a scientific fairy tale to provide it.
    Last edited by Navaros; 05-28-2007 at 02:15.

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    EB II Romani Consul Suffectus Member Zaknafien's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    um, evolution is a fact. sorry if you don't like that.. lol


    "urbani, seruate uxores: moechum caluom adducimus. / aurum in Gallia effutuisti, hic sumpsisti mutuum." --Suetonius, Life of Caesar

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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaknafien
    um, evolution is a fact. sorry if you don't like that.. lol
    I like the quoted post here, because it proves my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaknafien
    Humanism is far superior to any religion that's ever graced this earth. Religion ruins everything and has caused more suffering in human history than any political extremism. Religion only restricts people --dont do this, dont do that, "God" said so. Its ridiculous. Science enables people by helping them live longer, fuller lives, and expands our understanding of the universe in which we live.
    Must strongly disagree here too. Science has no regard for human life whatsoever. Science says: "We have the science to murder babies via abortion, so let's go ahead and do it since that is fine and dandy". Likewise for with "stem-cell research". The mass murders legally conducted all over the world via these two things vis a vis "science" is by far the worst atrocity ever committed in human history, and there is no end to it in sight.

    Additionally, how many millions have and will make Darwin their god and thereby abandon the real God for Darwin's sake? With Darwin as their god and no real God in their minds, nothing about being a moral person matters. Thus giving themselves over to the natural evils of their own hearts, thereby causing destruction in their own lives here on Earth and beyond.
    Last edited by Navaros; 05-28-2007 at 02:30.

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    EB II Romani Consul Suffectus Member Zaknafien's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    well first of all, "God", "Zeus", "Yaweh", "Allah", "Krishna", "Jupiter" and the Flying Spaghetti Monster do not exist.

    Secondly, how can you possibly be opposed to stem-cell research? You can oppose abortion on moral grounds without being religious about it, but stem-cell research uses dead tissue in research that will lead to miraculous health beneifts in the next decade.

    Thirdly, simply because you agree to be rational and believe in facts does not mean you "worship" Darwin, for instance.

    Morality is not dependent on false religions. Like I said, Humanism is far more "moral" anyway, because it doesnt lead to witchhunts, burnings, beheadings, crucifixions, massacres, beatings, mutilations, and insane sexual rights that molest children.


    "urbani, seruate uxores: moechum caluom adducimus. / aurum in Gallia effutuisti, hic sumpsisti mutuum." --Suetonius, Life of Caesar

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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    Darwin's books and messages are worshipped by scientists and by many led astray by them, as if they are holy books, that is what I mean when I say Darwin is their god.

    There is just as long and just as bad of a list of things that humanism promotes, most heinous of all the two listed in my previous post.

  22. #22
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    So, my take-away from this discussion, is not the rightness or wrongness of established religions or science. Rather, posters seem agreed that the follow-on actions of laymen (non-scientists, and non-priests), those millions of people who subscribe to beliefs without fully understanding them and their details,

    and their (laymen) penchant for the violent defense of those beliefs...

    is deplorable.

    With that, I must agree.

    And wonder what is it in our human makeup that leads us to ponder the seemingly imponderable, and to be moved to emotion-laden words, and violent action in defense of matters of which we know so little?

    Seems to me, the guy who figures that out will likely be designated the next savior.
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    Member Member Yun Dog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    If this is another debunking science thread then yadda yadda..

    However I think there could be some value in discussing the cultural phenomena of science being treated as a religion. To explain further - Im talking about peoples acceptance of scientific theories and laws they themselves have no or little understanding of. They turn the switch and light comes on, water comes out of the tap (hot if its the red one), peoples voices can travel through the air and magically find your mobile and cause it to ring. Many people have little understanding of the fundamental building blocks of science, nor do they understand the rigorous methodology of science, or how to critically appraise something as proven or false. This leads to an erroneous attitude - 'that science will provide' - many people are not concerned about global; warming or other environmental disasters because they believe that science will find a way to extend the longevity of the planet indefinitely or that we will colonise other planets through our conquoring of that little thing called relativity.

    to paraphrase that bit out of Jurassic park - "I'll tell you the problem with the scientific power that you're using here: it didn't require any discipline to attain it. You read what others had done and you took the next step. You didn't earn the knowledge for yourselves, so you don't take any responsibility for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could and before you even knew what you had you patented it and packaged it and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now you're selling it, you want to sell it! "

    I see the popular ignorance of science as the real problem, it has its blind faith, it has its fanatics and high priests, and its heretics.

    "I had retrod the steps of knowledge along the paths of time and exchanged the discoveries of enquirers for the dreams of forgotten alchimists." Frankenstein

    Edit: science is a tool for discovering HOW, it has never and should never be used to explain the WHY
    Last edited by Yun Dog; 05-28-2007 at 03:09.
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    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    @ question:

    No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
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    EB II Romani Consul Suffectus Member Zaknafien's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    I can definately agree with that much. But one thing I think that should prove science to be far superior, is that 'men of science' if you will, are perfectly content to let people believe whatever spritual myth they want to make them feel better at night, if they think it is naive. "men of faith" on the other hand, are far too often eager to dismiss the others' claims as heresy, ignorant, and condemn them to a mythical place of punishment in the afterlife. Take evangelicals, for instance. They sincerely espouse the fact that they and only they will go to 'heaven' and that all jews, muslims, buddhistas, etc, will burn forever in a pit of fire..

    come on now.


    "urbani, seruate uxores: moechum caluom adducimus. / aurum in Gallia effutuisti, hic sumpsisti mutuum." --Suetonius, Life of Caesar

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    Same facts, different conclusion.

    Belousov wasn't accepted by the group-think in power. Thankfully overtime his ideas were tested by others and proven to be the most accurate current model.

    So to my mind that shows the power of science that it can overcome entrenched thinking and change its models to a more accurate one.

    Now can the same be said for religion?

    As for Newton vs Einstein, that is not an issue at all. At non-relativistic speeds Einstein's equations are virtually identical to that of Newtons. As far as gravity effecting the mythical apple in the orchard falling form a tree... well the two sets of equations will come up with identical models.

    =][=

    um, evolution is a fact. sorry if you don't like that.. lol
    Incorrect evolution is not a fact. Evolution is a theory that fits certain facts and supported by other facts and theory. Gravity is a theory that fits certain facts as well. We test theories by experiments to find out if the theories will predict the facts that will come out.

    Any any "science" television show will say things like "150 million years ago, thus and so happened". As if they know that as a fact. When really they have no proof whatsoever that the Earth was around that long ago but rather they only have their faith that it was based on what other men have told them.
    Not difficult with a TIMS or SHRIMP to verify the age of something. Carbon dating is for the short term scale, other isotopes allow million year verification, and others allow for billion year calibration. The age is then supported from other disciplines and theories (stellar formation for instance).
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    will lead to miraculous health beneifts in the next decade.
    Ah, a leap of faith.
    What proves that there will be miraculous health benefits? We have scientists words and what they say are facts. If someone were to say that there was an alternative to stem-cell research, that stem-cells can't help cure cancer, that stem cells are a false hope?
    They have full evidence of this, experiments that are double-blind, and that stem-cells are a bunch of confetti like Eugenics?

    I think that Science and Religion are required by humans. Science is required for advancement, religion for spiritual fulfillment. Science can explain alot of things, but religion has done alot for humanity as well. Science isn't 'human'.
    It is a group-think, ammoral group who decides on calculations and theories.
    Religion provides the ideal concept of the human, and challenges the believer to live up to that standard.

    Science has caused more deaths than religion ever has. For while man might fight for his religion, who gave him those weapons?
    Last edited by Marshal Murat; 05-28-2007 at 03:01.
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    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

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    EB II Romani Consul Suffectus Member Zaknafien's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio

    Incorrect evolution is not a fact. Evolution is a theory that fits certain facts and supported by other facts and theory. Gravity is a theory that fits certain facts as well. We test theories by experiments to find out if the theories will predict the facts that will come out.
    Quite right, what i mean to say is that we know for a fact evoultion occurs in species. There are gaps in the current understanding of evolution to be sure but to deny it exists is false.


    "urbani, seruate uxores: moechum caluom adducimus. / aurum in Gallia effutuisti, hic sumpsisti mutuum." --Suetonius, Life of Caesar

  29. #29
    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    I Sure Do Hope No One Saw This>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Last edited by CrossLOPER; 05-28-2007 at 03:06.
    Requesting suggestions for new sig.

    -><- GOGOGO GOGOGO WINLAND WINLAND ALL HAIL TECHNOVIKING!SCHUMACHER!
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  30. #30
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Science the new relgion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
    I think that Science and Religion are required by humans. Science is required for advancement, religion for spiritual fulfillment. Science can explain alot of things, but religion has done alot for humanity as well. Science isn't 'human'.
    It is a group-think, ammoral group who decides on calculations and theories.
    Religion provides the ideal concept of the human, and challenges the believer to live up to that standard.
    I take it as an insult to label a group ammoral because they do not belong to YOUR religion. Morality is not exclusive to religions nor do scientists have to be non-religious, nor do ones who don't belong to a religion have no morals. That is quite a rude statement to make.

    Nor does religion provide the ideal concept of the human, as no two religions can agree on what that concept is. There are different dietary laws, clothing, how to pray, when to pray, where to pray, how much to give to the institution, how to treat other believers, how to treat non-believers etc etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
    Science has caused more deaths than religion ever has. For while man might fight for his religion, who gave him those weapons?
    So weapons only happened after the scientific method came about? So the Samurai Katana is what not a weapon because it didn't involve a scientist making it?
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
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    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

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