I love being European, but sometimes I feel very, very ashamed

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Isn't there? Since according to you they all come in anyway, and they do work somewhere.... And wouldn't they pay taxes?

You know I never said that.

Exactly why the emphasis should be on discouraging emigration in the countries of origin as opposed to the destination, where the whole journey has already been made.

WE told them not to come.

Again, I am not arguing for open borders. I am arguing for a more humane approach to people's lives. And how would immigration affect you personally? Do you really think your government would kick you out of your home? Or any of those immigrants would? Please.

For the very last time I and most americans are in favor of immigration. Its how this nation was built, But do it legally. Our immigration policies are humane.

[SwordsMaster]

For the very last time I and most americans are in favor of immigration. Its how this nation was built, But do it legally. Our immigration policies are humane.

Really? It is harder to get into the US than it is to get into Israel or Russia. I actually stopped at a US embassy a few days ago, as I have to go there for work, and i have to present documentation to justify pretty much every single movement i made, from beach holidays to morning commute, and not only that, i wasn't even allowed into the embassy, but was given a card by a (rude and full of himself) army sargent and told to check the website.

How very welcoming and humane. This is just to get a 9 month Visa mind you, no word on semi-permanent residence or anything of the sort.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Really? It is harder to get into the US than it is to get into Israel or Russia.

Because more people want to come here. Tell me how our immigration laws are inhumane. What do you suggest we change?

[SwordsMaster]

Because more people want to come here. Tell me how our immigration laws are inhumane. What do you suggest we change?

Firstly, I do not want to be told off by some sargent, I am not a recruit, and have no desire to take orders from military unless at war.

Secondly, there is no justification whatsoever for being rude.

Thirdly, my personal travels are mine. I am not a US citizen, and I am to be presumed innocent until proven otherwise, right? I have nothing to hide, but I don't walk around naked either. I think this is, again, basic privacy and crossing it without invitation is rude.

So if more immigrants wish to come to the US, the ridiculous control procedures must be placed to discourage applicants? Ironically, those who bother adhering to the procedures are the legal immigrants, so the illegal immigration problem is still there, and encouraged for people who cannot provide the relevant documentation. Perhaps if the procedures were relaxed, more people would immigrate legally, and would have a better opinion of american law abroad.

[Zaknafien]

believe it or not before i joined the army I actually worked for INS as it was changing over to BCIS. i left a pretty good government job to enlist into the military after 9/11. Our immigration policies are anything but humane, they're ludicrous. Indeed, its harder to get to the US and involves more paperwork and fees and fines than 80% of the world can afford.

Fact: There is plenty of living space in the United States, vast swathes of the West and Central Plains are virtually uninhabited. That argument is simply fear-mongering.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Our immigration policies are anything but humane, they're ludicrous. Indeed, its harder to get to the US and involves more paperwork and fees and fines than 80% of the world can afford.

Your right. Filling out paper work and charging fees is inhumane

Try getting into Canada sometime.

Not a lot, I must confess. I do know a bit the european ones, which is what the topic was about initially. It doesn't change the fact that having thousands of people die at the border is unacceptable. Whichever country owns the border.

We have quotas involving education and jobs. We look to have people immigrate here in the fields we need. Dont believe all that bunk written on the statue of Liberty. The french wrote that. Keep are you damned poor and unwashed right where they are. Send us your best But really we have a program much as you suggest.

[Tribesman]

Dont believe all that bunk written on the statue of Liberty. The french wrote that.

[Papewaio]

The maritime captain broke the law. Pity he isn't swinging from a yardarm. All his catch should have been impounded and the profits go to Italy for doing the right thing.

[Ja'chyra]

The maritime captain broke the law. Pity he isn't swinging from a yardarm. All his catch should have been impounded and the profits go to Italy for doing the right thing.

Did he?

I thought at sea the Captains word was law barring things like murder etc. Is there a law that states that a captain must pick up anyone whose ship has foundered?

[ajaxfetish]

believe it or not before i joined the army I actually worked for INS as it was changing over to BCIS. i left a pretty good government job to enlist into the military after 9/11. Our immigration policies are anything but humane, they're ludicrous. Indeed, its harder to get to the US and involves more paperwork and fees and fines than 80% of the world can afford.

Fact: There is plenty of living space in the United States, vast swathes of the West and Central Plains are virtually uninhabited. That argument is simply fear-mongering.

There's a slight difference between simply having room to fit more people and having the resources on hand to support those people. Granted, there is a lot we can do to to make it work anyway, but the western US is mostly desert, and in many places is already supporting more people than it really should (for example, the Colorado River doesn't have a mouth. The entire thing is used up before it makes it to the sea, and people still fight over who gets a bigger or smaller share of it.)

Ajax

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Firstly, I do not want to be told off by some sargent, I am not a recruit, and have no desire to take orders from military unless at war.

Secondly, there is no justification whatsoever for being rude.

Thirdly, my personal travels are mine. I am not a US citizen, and I am to be presumed innocent until proven otherwise, right? I have nothing to hide, but I don't walk around naked either. I think this is, again, basic privacy and crossing it without invitation is rude.

None of this has anything to do with our immigration policies. It does have to do with obtaining Visas and an who is interviewing you it seems.

So if more immigrants wish to come to the US, the ridiculous control procedures must be placed to discourage applicants?

Be specific. Exactly what what immigration law should be relaxed? What again should we change? Dont you think your being cheated having to go through all this just to visit while a Mexican can just walk across the border?

Perhaps if the procedures were relaxed, more people would immigrate legally, and would have a better opinion of american law abroad.

Thats like saying if we legalize everything we would cut down on crime.

[SwordsMaster]

While it is a pain to go through all these procedures, I don't think a mexican 'just' walks across the border. I think it is a decision he takes quite seriously.

In any case, I think a decent approach would be to every year publish a list of all the jobs that have not been filled, and advertise it in the countries that provide most immigrants, with job applications taking place in their countries of origin, and then allowing immigration to those who have successfully passed through the process...

You could argue that a free market economy will do that for you, but I think that since it is a nation-wide problem, perhaps the government should take a more active part in the process.

Another possible solution is to offer higher salaries to qualified us citizens who emigrate to these countries, as this will both "free" space in the US, and add to the economy of the affected country therefore increasing the quality of life.

For example. I'm not an economist or a politician, and these are just off the top of my head.

And you are right, perhaps my view of US immigration is worsened by the I had to deal with, but imagine what those poor mexicans have to deal with.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

While it is a pain to go through all these procedures, I don't think a mexican 'just' walks across the border. I think it is a decision he takes quite seriously.

Well its a lot simpler than what you have to go through. Once he makes up his mind its pretty much that easy.

n any case, I think a decent approach would be to every year publish a list of all the jobs that have not been filled, and advertise it in the countries that provide most immigrants, with job applications taking place in their countries of origin, and then allowing immigration to those who have successfully passed through the process...

Do you know anything about our policies?

but imagine what those poor mexicans have to deal with.

Mostly this

EDIT: You need to host pictures yourself, not link directly to them, I'm afraid. Note to readers: It was a picture of Wile E Coyote. BG