Question about EDU

[Aradan]

Yes, I'm pretty sure the bonuses do stack. The reason spear_bonus_x always appers coupled with spear or light_spear is because if the two latter are not present, then spear_bonus_x has no effect. Btw, as the Guide also mentions, light_spear doesn't give +4, it gives +8, but contrary to 'spear', it gives that to defense.

No I don't think CA ever made a comment on that. The numbers in the Guide are results of long months of hard testing.

[mcantu]

I noticed that in the MTW2 EDU there are quite a few units that have spear_bonus_x without spear or light_spear

[mcantu]

Here are the results of tests I did with light_spear and spear_bonus_x

Test was in EB; Thessalian Cavalry vs Classic Hoplite; on flat ground
I charged the cavalry into the hoplite front using alt-right cick so they would switch to swords after the charge.

In every instance the classic hoplite easily defeated the thessalian cav

#1 Hoplites w/light_spear:
Time to cav rout/hoplites remaining
1:50/72
1:45/72
1:45/65

#2 Hoplites w/o light_spear
Time to cav rout/hoplites remaining
1:55/49
1:40/75
2:30/60

#3 Hoplites w/ light_spear; spear_bonus_4
Time to cav rout/hopites remaining
1:10/76
1:12/72
1:18/67

#4 Hoplites w/light_spear; spear_bonus_8
Time to cav rout/hoplites remaining
1:00/74
:50/73
:35/76

[Aradan]

And your conclusion is? (btw we're talking RTW EDU here, right?)

In any case, I believe you are using a wrong method to test things. When you test you must keep *every* paramtre equal and vary only the one you are investigating. So what you need is: two identical units, with identical stats, no officers, same skeletons, no other attributes, no heat penalty, no ground modifier, same morale, custom battles, flat ground, medium difficulty and multiple tests. Perhaps I'm forgetting sth here, but you get the point.

[mcantu]

What seemed to happen was that there was very little effect on the cavalry when light_spear was used alone or when it was removed. Also, the cav unit would lose only 0-2 soldiers during the initial charges into the hoplites. With light_spear and spear_bonus_x used together, the cav would lose 3-6 soldiers in the initial charges and the rate at which they were killed was much faster

And those were the test perameters I used except for the heat and ground modifiers which didnt come into play...

[Aradan]

The light-spear gives only to defense, so perhaps that's why it didn't make much difference regarding cavalry deaths. The spear_bonus_x on the other hand gives to attack, so again that should explain the difference.

I advise that you don't charge the cavalry into the infantry if you want to getnot seem like a big difference, but it is if you try to be precise. accurate results. Charge bonus comes into play (even if you have set it to 1) and various other stuff, like the mass of the cavalry that disrupts the infantry formation, and can have an effect on the battle outcome. It might not seem like a big deal, but it is if you're trying to be precise.

Since we're on the topic, have you run any tests with short_pike? I never find the time to them myself... :)