Saba units for next release

**abou** · 05-30-2007, 20:28

Camels are really... meh. They show up every once in a while, but don't seem to be particularly effective for combat. They mostly would be used as transport to and from the battlefield, but not for riding during battle.

If it makes you feel better, some of those Saba light units are really awesome.

Another problem though is that heavy units are out of place in their location due to climate. Although, it would be nice to see what they could get as they expand into Hellenistic territories. I think we have a nice Indian unit with a skin just for them, but I can't remember off the top of my head.

**I Am Herenow** · 05-30-2007, 20:47

But historically, did the Sabaeans simply have a small selection of troops, or do we just not know much about them?

**abou** · 05-30-2007, 20:54

Possibly the former; definitely the latter. What is worse is that what has been published is even less. There are some academic publications published in French that one of the guys on the team is going to be looking in to getting (hopefully that should help) and we've contacted a professor whole specializes in the region.

Basically, everyone on the team has their fingers crossed.

**pockettank** · 05-30-2007, 20:56

u say camels where probly only used for transport but same w/ the British Generals they only used chairiots for trransportation then fought on foot

**abou** · 05-30-2007, 21:01

Well, there is no truly effective way to have men come off of chariots in RTW. There have been thoughts on how to do it - using siege weapons such as ballistas for a base and then heavily modifying it, but it hasn't really worked. If we could we would.

At least, I think that is the point you're trying to make. You're lack of punctuation makes it hard to follow your thought processes.

**Watchman** · 05-30-2007, 21:22

AFAIK camels work well enough as archery platforms. I've read Bedouin raiders operating as camel-mounted bowmen gave the Israelites major trouble at one point and presumably also pestered the Assyrians and Babylonians, and Arab camel-archers are mentioned as a part of the Seleucid line-up at Magnesia. Seems to have been a northern Arab thing though, the southerners apparently just used th beasts for transport and used their few horses to form the mounted arm.

Originally Posted by The Errant

Btw. Does anybody know when the arabs started using HA?

The northern ones presumably picked up a thing or two from their Parthian, Sassanid and Roman neighbours, but AFAIK the phenomenom is in general a post-Islamic one - a direct result of taking over a lot of Byzantine and Sassanid territory, absorbing a lot of their military techniques (and often manpower - AFAIK much of the Sassanid warrior aristocracy flatly defected to the invaders en masse at some point, and there was also the ghulam slave-soldier practice) and then having to deal with HA-using enemies themselves.

**The Errant** · 05-30-2007, 21:32

Originally Posted by Watchman

AFAIK camels work well enough as archery platforms. I've read Bedouin raiders operating as camel-mounted bowmen gave the Israelites major trouble at one point and presumably also pestered the Assyrians and Babylonians, and Arab camel-archers are mentioned as a part of the Seleucid line-up at Magnesia. Seems to have been a northern Arab thing though, the southerners apparently just used th beasts for transport and used their few horses to form the mounted arm.

The northern ones presumably picked up a thing or two from their Parthian, Sassanid and Roman neighbours, but AFAIK the phenomenom is in general a post-Islamic one - a direct result of taking over a lot of Byzantine and Sassanid territory, absorbing a lot of their military techniques (and often manpower - AFAIK much of the Sassanid warrior aristocracy flatly defected to the invaders en masse at some point, and there was also the ghulam slave-soldier practice) and then having to deal with HA-using enemies themselves.

Damn. I was hoping for a historical excuse to add atleast one unit of HA to the Sabeans. They have their mounted javelin skirmishers, but they suck. Too little ammo to be of use against phalangites.
Most enemy skirmishers can beat them in a fair fight, so the only really useful function they serve is chasing routed units.

**Watchman** · 05-30-2007, 21:43

The inhabitants of the southern "hot deserts" for some reason seem to always have favoured javelins for their mounted skirmishers (see the Numidians for another case), whereas bows seem to have been the norm around the northern "cold deserts" and steppes and regions influenced by them.

**Geoffrey S** · 05-30-2007, 22:13

Originally Posted by abou

Well, there is no truly effective way to have men come off of chariots in RTW. There have been thoughts on how to do it - using siege weapons such as ballistas for a base and then heavily modifying it, but it hasn't really worked. If we could we would.

At least, I think that is the point you're trying to make. You're lack of punctuation makes it hard to follow your thought processes.

I think the point he's trying to make is that in EB Celtic chariots are an abstraction, since they were used for transport and not for combat, and hence thinks that the same should apply to camel riders being represented as actual units.

**QwertyMIDX** · 05-31-2007, 01:54

Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

I think the point he's trying to make is that in EB Celtic chariots are an abstraction, since they were used for transport and not for combat, and hence thinks that the same should apply to camel riders being represented as actual units.

Completely different. Camels were used as transport to and from battles, more like pack animals than anything else. Celtic chariots were used as transport during battles to get soldiers to and from key points quickly.

Anyway, the Sabaens didn't use camels in battle, that's pretty much the long and short of it. There's a chance we might have a northern arab camelry unit at some point, but nothing in the south.

**Lysander13** · 05-31-2007, 06:20

I have a question about the Saba faction as it relates to the units they currently have now or perhaps will have in the future and how they employed them in battle. Or perhaps clearly stated short of actual facts ; i'm interested in my fellow EB'ers opinions. The Saba clearly is not a cavalry dominated army like the Pahlava or some of the nomad horse archer factions as they stand now. My question is who did they most resemble in battle in terms of tactics?. Their clearly not a Diadochi type army..we already covered their not like the Pahlava, not barbarian.....How did they fight?..What were their tactics like?..or were they just simply a mixture of all of the above?