Bang per buck: Melee cavalry

[Doug-Thompson]

The spreadsheet I used didn't have the Monastic Orders in them.

I'll post again tonight. Real life is interfering.

[andrewt]

Thanks. I'm playing the Moors right now. Between good initial economy, Christian Guard, dismounted Christian Guard (which I assume would be up there as well on both bang per buck and just plain bang on infantry) and Camel Gunners, the campaign is a lot of fun. I'm about finished, though.

[Doug-Thompson]

An early spreadsheet without all the details.

Notice that speed makes a big difference in the formula, making the Order Knights a little lower than one could expect.

Quapukulu 63.19
Christian Guard 60.16
Royal Mamluks 59.68
Tsars Guard 53.06
Conquistadores 52.58
Norman Knights 52.58
Polish Guard 52.47
Teutonic Knights 50.79
Serbian Knights 49.72
Knights Hospitaller 49.38
Knights of Santiago 49.38
Knights Templar 49.38
Royal Banderium 49.38
Gothic Knights 48.10
Crusader Knights 47.80
Polish Knights 47.70
Noble Knights 47.70
Chivalric Knights 47.70
Lancers 44.89
E Chivalric Knights 44.89
Famiglia Ducale 43.21
Hussars 42.18
Serbian Hussars 42.18
Demi Lancers 37.29
Huscarls 33.00
Mamluks 31.21
Armored Clergy 31.03
Imperial Knights 30.74
Kataphractoi 30.05
English Knights 29.79
Druzhina 27.50
Latinkon 27.01
Mercenary Frankish Knights 25.61
Armenian Cavalry 25.61
Gendarmes 24.38
Sipahi Lancers 24.01
Portuguese Knights 23.41
Feudal Knights 23.12
Polish Retainers 22.69
Mailed Knights 22.41
Granadine Lancers 22.41
Broken Lances 21.07
Kwarizmian Cavalry 18.78
Albanian Cavalry 15.40
Stradiots 15.40
Mercenary German Knights 13.95
Alan Light Cavalry 13.86
Condottieri 13.03
Mercenary Knights 10.70
Byzantine Lancers 9.79
Italian MAA 9.63
Italian Cavalry Militia 9.24
Mounted Sergeants 8.01
Arab Cavalry 8.01
Tuareg Camel Spearmen 7.15
Bedouin Cavalry 6.10
Border Horse 4.52
EE Cavalry Militia 2.49
Greek Militia Cavalry 2.26
Merchant Cavalry Militia 2.17
Scouts 1.78
Hobilars 1.13

[andrewt]

What's that last list? It seems similar from plain bang but some units jumped up.

[Doug-Thompson]

What's that last list? It seems similar from plain bang but some units jumped up.

The first list has several more factors built in and is more refined. For instance, the second list includes Monastic Order knights but gives a bonus for anti-armor secondary weapons that was too high, IMO.


I'll redit this post after making some more adjustments.

[edited P.S.]

Well now, that was interesting.

Before giving these rankings, a couple of disclaimers:

1. Speed mattered. Seven of the top 10 had normal speed, which is faster than most knights.

2. The difference between the top of this "best of" list and the bottom is very close. Every one of these is a tough unit. Also, look at how many of these are scores are tied.

3. One point of armor between Chivalric Knights and Order Knights made the difference.

So, here it is: Christian Guard 49.72
Serbian Knights 49.72
Quapukulu 48.96
Tsars Guard 48.23
Conquistadores 47.80
Norman Knights 47.80
Crusader Knights 47.80
Polish Knights 47.70
Chivalric Knights 47.70
Polish Guard 47.70
Noble Knights 47.70
Royal Mamluks 46.24
Gothic Knights 45.09
E Chivalric Knights 44.89
Royal Banderium 44.89
Lancers 44.89
Knights Hospitaller 44.89
Knights of Santiago 44.89
Knights Templar 44.89
Teutonic Knights 43.29

[andrewt]

2 more questions if you don't mind:

1. How is the sand/snow/etc. bonus/penalty computed in?
2. What is trained? Does that just affect morale or is it something else?

[Doug-Thompson]

1. How is the sand/snow/etc. bonus/penalty computed in?

It's not — yet. It's hard to work in that variable because, for instance, I have some Knight Templars in my current game who have not and will not leave Europe.

2. What is trained? Does that just affect morale or is it something else?

Doesn't rout if they see untrained units routing, IIRC.

Now, a big list with everybody on it, including melee values for missile cavalry units:

Christian Guard 49.72
Serbian Knights 49.72
Quapukulu 48.96
Tsars Guard 48.23
Conquistadores 47.80
Norman Knights 47.80
Crusader Knights 47.80
Polish Knights 47.70
Chivalric Knights 47.70
Polish Guard 47.70
Noble Knights 47.70
Royal Mamluks 46.24
Gothic Knights 45.09
E Chivalric Knights 44.89
Royal Banderium 44.89
Lancers 44.89
Knights Hospitaller 44.89
Knights of Santiago 44.89
Knights Templar 44.89
Teutonic Knights 43.29
Hussars 42.18
Serbian Hussars 42.18
Famiglia Ducale 39.28
Demi Lancers 37.29
Reiters 36.81
Dvor_Cavalry 36.29
Polish_Nobles 30.01
Huscarls 28.94
Imperial Knights 28.37
English Knights 27.66
Latinkon 27.01
Armored Clergy 26.95
Mamluks 26.19
Mercenary Frankish Knights 25.61
Armenian Cavalry 25.61
Druzhina 25.53
Kataphractoi 25.22
Gendarmes 24.38
Sipahi Lancers 24.01
Portuguese Knights 23.41
Feudal Knights 23.12
Vardariotai 22.90
Polish Retainers 22.69
Mailed Knights 22.41
Granadine Lancers 22.41
Mongol_Heavy_Archers 21.64
Mamluk_Archers 21.64
Broken Lances 21.07
French_Mounted_Archers 20.21
Kwarizmian Cavalry 18.78
Hungarian_Nobles 17.24
Boyar_Sons 15.32
Albanian Cavalry 14.22
Stradiots 14.22
Alan Light Cavalry 13.86
Mercenary German Knights 12.68
Condottieri 11.85
Mercenary Knights 10.70
Cossack_Cavalry 10.14
Sipahis 9.67
Italian MAA 9.63
Italian Cavalry Militia 9.24
Byzantine Lancers 8.90
Mongol_Horse_Archers 8.53
Jinetes 8.23
Mounted Sergeants 8.01
Arab Cavalry 8.01
Lithuanian_Cavalry 7.58
Granadine_CB_Cav 6.67
Tuareg Camel Spearmen 6.50
Granadine_Jinetes 6.04
Bedouin Cavalry 5.55
Polish_Shooters 4.62
Border Horse 4.52
Camel_Gunners 4.19
Desert_Cavalry 4.15
Byzantine_Cavalry 2.94
Bedouin_Camel_Riders 2.73
Mounted_Crossbowmen 2.58
EE Cavalry Militia 2.49
Greek Militia Cavalry 2.26
Merchant Cavalry Militia 2.17
Scouts 1.78
Turkopoles 1.68
Turkomans 1.66
Turkomans_Mercs 1.66
Magyar_Cavalry 1.52
Hobilars 1.13
Kazaks 1.12
Turkish_Horse_Archers 1.12
Skythikon 1.12
Akinjis 1.01
Cuman_Horse_Archers 1.01