Win Conditions

[JMRC]

Hi.

I noticed that the descr_win_conditions.txt file is empty. I'm using BI, so I went into the barbarian_invasion campaign directory and changed the file for the following:

;Romani
seleucid
hold_regions Latium Etruria Umbria Apulia Campania Kalabria Aemilia Liguria

;Casse
britons
hold_regions Cassemorg Corieltauvae 
take_regions 14

;Koinon Hellenon
greek_cities
hold_regions Attike Lakonike Rhodos Peloponnesos Euboia Aitolia Krete Thessalia
take_regions 14

;Epeiros
thrace
hold_regions Epeiros Dardanoia Scorcouw Dalmatia Sicilia Trinakrie Makedonia Thessalia
take_regions 10

The results were very interesting: the AI behaved exactly as ordered to.

In all my games, Epeiros consistently manages to conquer the roman cities of Arpi and Capua (and sometimes even Rome), while the roman armies are calmly besieging Massilia or any faraway city.

With the modification above, the Epirotes sent a small army against Arpi, but they sent 2 full stacks against Sicilia. They made a "short" stop in Brettia in order to conquer Rhegion and then moved on to conquer Sicilia. Meanwhile, they tried to conquer Pella (in Makedonia) but failed (though they decimated the garrison), but managed to conquer the cities in Dardanoia and Dalmatia.

A similar thing happened with the Romans. They went against the cities indicated in the DWC file with an astounding precision.

My question is: why EB doesn't use DWC to implement the objectives? Are they implemented somewhere else? Am I missing something?

[Redmeth]

Very interesting, you should have posted this in the main forum, it's a lot surer that someone on the team will notice it there.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I suggested using this once to encourage AI direction, but I was told that it doesn't effect the AI at all.

[JMRC]

I suggested using this once to encourage AI direction, but I was told that it doesn't effect the AI at all.

I looked at vanilla RTW 1.2 and didn't find DWC. I also checked an installation with BI and I did find the DWC in the RTW directory. This leads me to conclude that DWC only works if you install BI (or maybe at least RTW 1.5).

[JMRC]

Hi.

Here it goes the descr_win_conditions.txt file with the regions indicated by the EB objectives. The majority is not historically accurate, since those factions never managed to achieve those regions, but I want to keep the file in line with the EB objectives. I did not include the regions highlighted in black, because they are just raiding objectives.

;Romani
seleucid
hold_regions Latium2 Etruria Umbria Apulia Campania Kalabria Brettia Aemilia Liguria Venetia Insubramrog Sicilia Trinakrie Elimya Sardin Korsim Greseoallra Arvenotorg Volcallra Aquitae Lacetania Cantabria Edetania Celtiberia Carpetania Bastetania Turdetania Asturia Turdulia Galaecia Lusitania Baleares Lugonesis Mrogaedu Batromorgan Lemorisae Sequallra Mrogaule Armoriae 
Helvetis Rhaetia Noricae Pannonia Bellovacaea_Belgae Nervaea_Belgae Habukolandam Pannonia_Illyrica Dalmatia Scorcouw Illyria_Hellenike Dardanoia Thraikia_Hypertera Mikra_Skythia Epeiros Makedonia Thessalia Aitolia Attike Euboia Peloponnesos Lakonike Krete Rhodos Lesbos Mysia Lydia Karia Pamphylia Phrygia Galatia Bithynia Kappadokia_Pontika Paphlagonia Pontos_Paralios Pokr_Hayk Kappadokia Kilikia Syria Syria_Koile Kypros Phoenicia Ioudaia Delta_Neilou Heptanomis Thebais Oasis_Megale Triakontaschoinos Marmarike Libye Kyrenaia Syrthim Byzacena Zeugitana Numidia Mashiliem Mauretania_Massaesili

;Saka
pontus
hold_regions Sai_Yavuga Saka_Yabgu Kangha Dayuan Dahyu_Haomavarga Sogdiane Margiane Dahyu_Alanna Dahyu_Yugra Dahyu_Mazsakata Dahyu_Aursa Dahyu_Daha Khwarazm Astauene Parthava Gabiene Aria Baktria Paropamisadai Karmania Drangiane Arachosia Gedrosia Gandhara Sind Sattagydia Xiyu

;Arverni
scythia
hold_regions Sequallra Lugonesis Arvenotorg Batromorgan Mrogaedu Lemorisae Armoriae Mrogaule Aquitae Volcallra Lacetania Bellovacaea_Belgae Nervaea_Belgae Vindelicos Helvetis Rhaetia Noricae Pannonia Thraikia_Hypertera Eravacouw Coutinoe Insubramrog Venetia Liguria

;Saba
saba
hold_regions Saba Qataban Hadramaut Zufar Maketa Arabia Main Gerrhaia_Arabia Diamat Kush Erythraia Triakontaschoinos Thebais Heptanomis Delta_Neilou Sinai Nabataia Rhodos Karia Pamphylia Kilikia Syria Syria_Koile Kypros Phoenicia Ioudaia Assyrie Babylonia Charax_Spasinou Persis Karmania Arachosia Gedrosia Sind Sattagydia

;Makedon
macedon
hold_regions Makedonia Thessalia Peloponnesos Euboia Lesbos Attike Lakonike Aitolia Epeiros Chersonesos_Thraikia Odrysai Dardanoia Illyria_Hellenike dalmatia Mikra_Skythia krete Rhodos Mysia Lydia Karia Pamphylia Phrygia Galatia Bithynia Kappadokia_Pontika Kappadokia Kilikia Syria Syria_Koile Kypros Phoenicia Ioudaia Delta_Neilou Assyrie Babylonia Kalabria 
Brettia Sicilia Trinakrie Elimya Campania Apulia Latium2

;Ptolemaioi
numidia
hold_regions Erythraia Triakontaschoinos Thebais Heptanomis Delta_Neilou Oasis_megale Marmarike Ioudaia Phoenicia Kypros Kilikia Pamphylia Kyrenaia Libye Diamat Kush Sinai Nabataia Main Saba Qataban Hadramaut Zufar Syria Syria_Koile Tadmor Assyrie Babylonia Chersonesos_Thraikia Makedonia Thessalia Aitolia Attike Euboia Peloponnesos Lakonike Krete Rhodos Lesbos Mysia Lydia Karia Phrygia Galatia Bithynia Kappadokia_Pontika Paphlagonia Pontos_Paralios Kappadokia

;Arche Seleukeia
romans_julii
hold_regions Phrygia Kappadokia Sophene Syria Syria_Koile Assyrie Adiabene Babylonia Media Charax_Spasinou Elymais Hyrkania Khoarene Gabiene Parthava Astauene Margiane Aria Drangiane Karmania Persis Chersonesos_Thraikia Makedonia Thessalia Aitolia Attike Euboia Peloponnesos Lakonike Krete Rhodos Lesbos Mysia Lydia Karia Galatia Bithynia Kappadokia_Pontika Paphlagonia Pontos_Paralios Pokr_Hayk Hayasdan Adurbagadan Pamphylia Kilikia Kypros Phoenicia Ioudaia Tadmor Nabataia Sinai Delta_Neilou Heptanomis Thebais Triakontaschoinos Oasis_Megale Libye Marmarike Kyrenaia Gerrhaia_Arabia Maketa Gedrosia Arachosia Paropamisadai Baktria Sogdiane Khwarazm Dahyu_Daha Kangha Dayuan Dahyu_Haomavarga Gandhara Sattagydia Sind Xiyu

;Carthage
egypt
hold_regions Zeugitana Mashiliem Byzacena Syrthim Turdetania Bastetania Baleares Sardin Korsim Elimya Carpetania Turdulia Edetania Lacetania Celtiberia Cantabria Asturia Galaecia Lusitania Sicilia Trinakrie Brettia Kalabria Campania Apulia Latium2 Umbria Etruria Aemilia Liguria Venetia 

;Parthia
parthia
hold_regions Khwarazm Dahyu_Daha Saka_Yabgu Kangha Dayuan Dahyu_Haomavarga Sogdiane Margiane Dahyu_Alanna Dahyu_Yugra 
Dahyu_Mazsakata Dahyu_Aursa Dahyu_Roxsalanna Dahyu_Siraca Aghvan Astauene Parthava Gabiene Aria Baktria Paropamisadai Karmania Drangiane Arachosia Gedrosia Hyrkania Adurbagadan Hayasdan Media Elymais Khoarene Persis Charax_Spasinou Babylonia Adiabene Sophene Pokr_Hayk Kappadokia Kilikia Pamphylia Phrygia Galatia Kappadokia_Pontika Assyrie Syria Syria_Koile Tadmor Phoenicia Ioudaia

;Pontus
carthage
hold_regions Kappadokia_Pontika Paphlagonia Pontos_Paralios Pokr_Hayk Kappadokia Kilikia Pamphylia Phrygia Galatia Bithynia Mysia Lesbos Lydia Karia Sophene Assyrie Syria Syria_Koile Tadmor Phoenicia Ioudaia Babylonia Adiabene Hayasdan Adurbagan Aghvan Kartli Egrisi Maeotis Bosporion_Tyrranesis Taurike_Chersonesos Skythia Bastarnolandam Eravacouw Getia Getia_Koile Mikra_Skythia Pannonia Pannonia_Illyrica Dalmatia Scorcouw Illyria_Hellenike Dardanoia Thraikia_Hypertera Odrysai 
Chersonesos_Thraikia Epeiros Makedonia Thessalia Aitolia Attike Euboia Peloponnesos Lakonike 

;Aedui
gauls
hold_regions Mrogaule Mrogaedu Insubramrog Venetia Rhaetia Noricae Pannonia Mrogbonna Vindelicos Sequallra Bellovacaea_Belgae Nervaea_Belga Armoriae Lemorisae Batromorgan Lugonesis Volcallra Arvenotorg Batromorgan Aquitae Celtiberia Asturia Galaecia Cornovae Cassemorg 

;Sweboz
germans
hold_regions Swebolandam Kimbriolandam Skandza Auwjogotanoz Rugolandam Silengolandam Mrogbonna Hattolandam Heruskolandam Habukolandam Vindelicos Bastarnolandam Sequallra Mrogaedu Bellovacaea_Belgae Naervaea_Belgae Lugonesis

;Casse
britons
hold_regions Cassemorg Corieltauvae Cornovae Cymriae Brigantiae Caledryn Cruddain Erain Armoriae Mrogaule Lemorisae Batromorgan Mrogaedu Sequallra Lugonesis Bellovacaea_Belgae Nervaea_Belgae Aquitae Arvenotorg Volcallra Cantabria Asturia Galaecia

;Hayasdan
romans_scipii
hold_regions Hayasdan Egrisi Kartli Aghvan Adurbagadan Media Elymais Persis Charax_Spasinou Babylonia Adiabene Sophene Assyrie  Tadmor Syria Syria_Koile Phoenicia Ioudaia Sinai Nabataia Delta_Neilou Heptanomis Thebais Marmarike Pontos_Paralios Paphlagonia Kappadokia_Pontika Pokr_Hayk Kappadokia Kilikia Galatia Phrygia Pamphylia Karia Lydia Mysia Lesbos Bithynia Scorcouw Thraikia_Hypertera Dardanoia Odrysai Chersonesos_Thraikia Makedonia Epeiros Thessalia Aitolia Attike Peloponnesos Lakonike

;Getai
dacia
hold_regions Getia Getia_Koile Mikra_Skythia Bastarnolandam Thraikia_Hypertera Coutinoe Eravacouw Mrogbonna Noricae Pannonia Pannonia_Illyrica Dalmatia Scorcouw Illyria_Hellenike Dardanoia Odrysai Chersonesos_Thraikia 

;Koinon Hellenon
greek_cities
hold_regions Attike Lakonike Rhodos Peloponnesos Euboia Aitolia Krete Thessalia Makedonia Epeiros Illyria_Hellenike Dalmatia Odrysai Chersonesos_Thraikia Mikra_Skythia Skythia Bosporion_Tyrranesis Taurike_Chersonesos Egrisi Pontos_Paralios Paphlagonia Kappadokia_Pontika Bithynia Mysia Lesbos Lydia Phrygia Karia Pamphylia Kilikia Kypros Delta_Neilou Marmarike Kyrenaia Kalabria Brettia Campania Apulia Sicilia Trinakrie Elimya Sardin Korsim Liguria Greseoallra Lacetania Edetania Baleares

;Baktria
romans_brutii
hold_regions Baktria Dayuan Sogdiane Khwarazm Dahyu_Daha Astauene Margiane Parthava Gabiene Aria Karmania Drangiane Arachosia Gedrosia Sind Sattagydia Paropamisadai Gandhara Dahyu_Haomavarga Kangha Sai_Yavuga Xiyu

;Sauromatae
armenia
hold_regions Dahyu_Aursa Dayhu_Roxsalanna Dayhu_Yaziga Dayhu_Siraca Dahyu_Yugra Dayhu_Thissakata Dahyu_Alanna Dahyu_Mazsakata Dahyu_Daha Khwarazm Astauene Sai_Yavuga Saka_Yabgu Kangha Dayuan Dahyu_Haomavarga Sogdiane Margiane Baktria Gandhara Parthava Hyrkania Media Adurbagadan Hayasdan Pokr_Hayk Kappadokia Galatia Bosporion_Tyrranesis Taurike_Chersonesos Skythia Budinije Neurije Bastarnolandam Coutinoe Mikra_Skythia Thraikia_Hypertera Eravacouw Scorcouw Pannonia Odrysai Chersonesos_Thraikia Xiyu

;Lusotannan
spain
hold_regions Lusitania Celtiberia Galaecia Asturia Cantabria Turdulia Carpetania Turdetania Bastetania Edetania Lacetania Volcallra Aquitae Baleares Cruddain Erain

;Epeiros
thrace
hold_regions Epeiros Illyria_Hellenike Kalabria Dardanoia Makedonia Odrysai Mikra_Skythia Chersonesos_Thraikia Thessalia Aitolia Euboia Attike Peloponnesos Lakonike Krete Dalmatia Scorcouw Pannonia Pannonia_Illyrica Venetia Aemilia Etruria Umbria Latium2 Apulia Campania Brettia Sicilia Trinakrie Elimya Sardin Korsim Greseoallra Rhodos Karia Lydia Lesbos Mysia Bithynia Phrygia Pamphylia Kilikia Kappadokia Pontos_Paralios Paphlagonia Kappadokia_Pontika Galatia Sophene Assyrie Syria Adiabene Babylonia Media Elymais Persis

If you find some wrong or missing name, please tell me. I will start making tests with this file and I'll let you know the results.

[LorDBulA]

Great initiative JMRC.
Let us know how the tests go.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
Could you guys please post the files or codes of the final status? I'm eager to try it.
.

[konny]

Due to the Christmas madness I hadn't so much time to mod, or to be precise I simply had not the energy to fiddle around with txt-files after work. But the results with version 0.21 that I am now using look good, I will upload this one tonight or tomorrow.

There is still some work left before I can come around with a "1.0" version.

That is in particular some testings and changes done to descr_strat for balance reasons: The stronger armies that I had placed for the four Hellenics are well balanced for the AI, but a human player might find these battles to easy and will use this army to blitz all his neighbour. So may be adding some units to the AI when the opponent is human is at hand.

The other thing is a new money script. I am not satisfied with the AI expansion with my script because the AI is akting more passive/defensive when holding VC towns. I had changed to the EB-money script, the results are better, but I still think it is unbalancing the game because it gives more money to the richer and less to the poorer. So I will try something new.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
Good luck, waiting impatiently.

I hope it cures some of the AU (Artificial Unintelligence), such as SPQR sending half stacks to Gallia and Illyria while Epeirotai are besieging Roma herself!


.

[Labrat]

What'll be the difference between 0.21 and 1.0? Are there bugs in the current version?

Great job, BTW .

I hope it cures some of the AU (Artificial Unintelligence)

I prefer Artificial Idiocy.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

I prefer Artificial Idiocy.

Much better!
.

[konny]

I am sorry, I am a little late:

http://www.2shared.com/file/2633488/...onditions.html

What'll be the difference between 0.21 and 1.0?

Depends on testing. What I want to try in the VCs is to give the Romans targets North of the Alps and in Spain, but not the Alpine Region or the Danube. I want to test if that makes them move along the coast to Spain or attack the Gauls without heading for Poland.

I am also still somewhat concered on Baktria because they tend to expand very fast into steppe territory when at war with Saka. But I don't think that this can be changed because these wars break out mid game and are, as far as I can see, provoked by Saka.

In the decr_strat there might be some minor changes too. May be fiddling around with the core attitude a little.

I will also make a special version for the ALX.exe, because with that engine I can use the "not_attack" command that prevents the AI from attacking other factions until at war with them.

Are there bugs in the current version?

None that I know of. I had one CTD out of three times when hitting "Continue" after meating the VCs, but that was three times the same game, so that might have other reasons.

[LotW89]

so if i make a descr_win_conditions.txt file where the factions have the homelands inside the file they will try to take them first:
1. won't i lose the game if they get the homelands, because it is in the descr_win_conditions.txt?
2. and it will deactivate the original EB win conditions?
3. will they conquer anything else than their homelands?
4. if yes, will they focus on the homelands first?

[konny]

so if i make a descr_win_conditions.txt file where the factions have the homelands inside the file they will try to take them first:
1. won't i lose the game if they get the homelands, because it is in the descr_win_conditions.txt?

Correct. Once the VC are meat the game is over (giving you the chance of playing on of course). You should therefore include more towns than just the homelands.

2. and it will deactivate the original EB win conditions?

The EB VCs are stored in the script and won't be affected. Nevertheless they can be achieved as well.

3. will they conquer anything else than their homelands?

Yes, certainly.

4. if yes, will they focus on the homelands first?

Depends very much on the faction. I usually have the Sweboz expanding very fine through their homelands, instead of rushing East for instance. The same is for the Arverni and Aedui who concentrate on Gaul instead of going for Germania or Hispania. Armenia and Baktria are not so focused on the steppe when directed by VCs. The others are either sitting on their homelands right from the start, while the Romans constantly refuse the VC file.

[PershsNhpios]

I have read the first post of course, and some others to convince my interest more.

I congratulate the author for his persistence and experimentation.

I run EB with BI.exe, what I want to know I will detail;

you seem to have discovered a mod that needs no development - am I right in believing that - with instruction, a player can give preliminary directives to each faction in the game - and then play the campaign at his leisure?

Or is this not so flexible?

How successful are you so far?

When you detail the objective settlements, do you simply give goals, or routes?
Routes would be an option anyway, but I mean that if you wished the Sweboz to conquer Rome regardless of tactic - would you simply have to add, "Roma", as a target?

I like this very much, and I don't really mod EB greatly.

I like the idea of deleting map.rwm, telling my factions where their hearts are, and starting a new campaign to see who wins and who will interrupt my own ambitions.
A player can even set the entire world eventually against him, without having it ridiculously so on Very Hard difficulty!

[konny]

you seem to have discovered a mod that needs no development - am I right in believing that - with instruction, a player can give preliminary directives to each faction in the game - and then play the campaign at his leisure?

Or is this not so flexible?

The victory conditions seem to work in two directions:

1. Given two valid targets, one being a VC the other not, the AI tends to attack the VC town first. Example would be the Romans, who tend to go for Segesta or Bononia first without VCs, but usually attack Taras first when that is assigned a VC-town.

The problem is of course, that there is no way to make the AI regard a town as a valid target. For example, both Karthago and Rome usually aviod Rhegion, Messana and Syracusae, even when these are assigned as victory conditions.

Another example would be Baktria. Baktria's targets are all recent Seleucide lands and none of the Saka. Nevertheless she starts allied with AS but as war with Saka. The result is a Baktria expanding North and leave the South alone. But that is only until AS and Baktria become hostile. In this case Baktria seems to pay much lesser attentions to the steppe - often losing much ground there - but pushes very hard into Seleucia.

So, when you give the Sweboz Roma as a target you won't see them packing and trecking South in turn#1, but given the situation at one point in the game that they might either attack Roma or another town they will most likely go for Roma first. You might make a path of VCs towns between their starting position and Roma, and provided all these towns are regarded as valid targets and at none they will definitly fail to take it, you'll have them standing at the gates of Rome one day.

2. The AI seems to pay much more attention to defend VC towns than attacking non-VC towns. That's the reason behind Makdonia surviving in most of the games since using this file: Pella is a victory condition for them, any towns on the Balkans are not. So they usually do not waste their armies on Serdike while Pella is under attack from KH and Epeiros but keep larger forces in reserve.

That makes the AI a bit more defenisve, up to the extreme in my first tests when AS had been asigned all starting towns as VCs with the result that she did not field any armies but used everything as garrison. That works a bit regulative in the way that the closer an AI faction will come to achiving it's VCs the more passive it will become.

How successful are you so far?

Testing it is a bit problematic because you have to run tests really long to see any effects of changes - the opening moves of the AI are always more or less the same. I will try to give Rome VCs North of the Alps to create a path into Spain and Greece. Giving targets that require to cross a watershed seems not to work to well. Karthago and Epeiros are another problem; all other factions seem to do pretty well what I want them to do in most of the games

[PershsNhpios]

This is good, so all I simply have to do is study the settlements of EB, draw a perimeter with my finger, and give all the cities within as objectives.
As long as the AI starts on the border of one of these towns, they will do what I ask.

Thank you for a detailed response.

Does this mean you have found a way to create proper naval assaults?
A way to bring the Casse over onto the continent?

Let's say I give the Iberians the objective of taking all of Iberia, and once they've done this, make Ippone a target, will they set sail?