Win Conditions

[konny]

As you can see here, your victory conditions are at least not crashing game to desctop when achieved =)

I had one CTD out of three occasions when clicking "Continue".

Have to admit that after relocating on RomeTW-ALX.exe I see significant performanse in AI logistiks. No more strange "walk that way, now go back".

Just wait until it starts to retain experinced elites. I think than the campaing becomes really fun....

Please, see section 2 of my recent post in Maximus tread, I would like to know yours pros and contras on it.

on the way.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Could you guys please post the files or codes of the final status? I'm eager to try it.
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[konny]

Due to the Christmas madness I hadn't so much time to mod, or to be precise I simply had not the energy to fiddle around with txt-files after work. But the results with version 0.21 that I am now using look good, I will upload this one tonight or tomorrow.

There is still some work left before I can come around with a "1.0" version.

That is in particular some testings and changes done to descr_strat for balance reasons: The stronger armies that I had placed for the four Hellenics are well balanced for the AI, but a human player might find these battles to easy and will use this army to blitz all his neighbour. So may be adding some units to the AI when the opponent is human is at hand.

The other thing is a new money script. I am not satisfied with the AI expansion with my script because the AI is akting more passive/defensive when holding VC towns. I had changed to the EB-money script, the results are better, but I still think it is unbalancing the game because it gives more money to the richer and less to the poorer. So I will try something new.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Good luck, waiting impatiently.

I hope it cures some of the AU (Artificial Unintelligence), such as SPQR sending half stacks to Gallia and Illyria while Epeirotai are besieging Roma herself!


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[Labrat]

What'll be the difference between 0.21 and 1.0? Are there bugs in the current version?

Great job, BTW .

I hope it cures some of the AU (Artificial Unintelligence)

I prefer Artificial Idiocy.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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I prefer Artificial Idiocy.

Much better!
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[konny]

I am sorry, I am a little late:

http://www.2shared.com/file/2633488/...onditions.html

What'll be the difference between 0.21 and 1.0?

Depends on testing. What I want to try in the VCs is to give the Romans targets North of the Alps and in Spain, but not the Alpine Region or the Danube. I want to test if that makes them move along the coast to Spain or attack the Gauls without heading for Poland.

I am also still somewhat concered on Baktria because they tend to expand very fast into steppe territory when at war with Saka. But I don't think that this can be changed because these wars break out mid game and are, as far as I can see, provoked by Saka.

In the decr_strat there might be some minor changes too. May be fiddling around with the core attitude a little.

I will also make a special version for the ALX.exe, because with that engine I can use the "not_attack" command that prevents the AI from attacking other factions until at war with them.

Are there bugs in the current version?

None that I know of. I had one CTD out of three times when hitting "Continue" after meating the VCs, but that was three times the same game, so that might have other reasons.

[Labrat]

Thanks for the answers!

[MiniMe]

I am sorry, I am a little late:
http://www.2shared.com/file/2633488/...onditions.html

before 1.1. is out?

I will also make a special version for the ALX.exe, because with that engine I can use the "not_attack" command that prevents the AI from attacking other factions until at war with them.

BTW, how about giving casse "prefer naval invasions" feature?

[Mouzafphaerre]

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[konny]

before 1.1. is out?

I am certain I have to redo descr_strat and campaign_script after that. So, no, I'll wait for 1.1 to make the first final version.

BTW, how about giving casse "prefer naval invasions" feature?

Yes, that should be tested (I am usually testing with Casse, so I can't really say how they are doing).

[MiniMe]

One more thing about them.
In my campaign it's already 185 BC and they don't have military port in the province they can build this damn building.
Either they are spending all their money on something else either AI prefer different building order than we would...
Perhaps, adding this building to this province from the start would help...

[Hax]

Alrighty.

Thanks so much for clearing this up for us, this really improves my game. Finally, after ten years, the Getai have woken up from their asleep (Zlad reference, anyone?) and are besieging Kallatis.

Romani have taken Bononia, Patavia, Segestica and Dalminion, and the Epeirotes have taken Rhegion (after I kicked them out of Greece)

Nothing interesting further, I'll wait until 200 BC before I toggle_fow, and see what craziness has been unleashed upon yon World.

[konny]

One more thing about them.
In my campaign it's already 185 BC and they don't have military port in the province they can build this damn building.

They can build ships in several provinces (at least one Ireland too). But yes, it seems the AI needs to have that building, otherwise we won't see a Casse Royal Navy ruling the waves.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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I've installed and started a Sabā campaign. Things look promising.





Have you seen this post of mine? What do you think?
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[konny]

What year are you in?

Have you seen this post of mine? What do you think?

No, I haven't followed that thread. Will have a look ASAP.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Sorry, my bad. It's 265. Not too long but definitely better than the -about- same years in my Make campaign.

Still, I'm uneasy with the quick expansion of the coloured fevers (white, yellow, grey) into rebel lands. Maybe rebel garrisons need a bump? Like by 2x?
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[konny]

[/COLOR]
Sorry, my bad. It's 265. Not too long but definitely better than the -about- same years in my Make campaign.

Thank you. Close to what I had guessed. But Epeiros is quite strange. Do they make any moves against the Maks? They should not go for Illyria this expansive.

Still, I'm uneasy with the quick expansion of the coloured fevers (white, yellow, grey) into rebel lands. Maybe rebel garrisons need a bump? Like by 2x?

White has a serious problem with the army deployment. I am playing Karthago myself now and all her forces are in Africa, save for some troops in Lilibeo - but not enough to do anything on Sicily. Recruitement of better troops is also only possible in Africa. Taking into account that the AI is not so firm in shipping around forces (on either exe), I can understand that it takes it decades to do anything in Europe.

There are also some wandering rebell stacks down in Africa. These are always a problem for the AI in terms of expansion because they lure the AI in a random direction where it usually continues to advance and takes the next rebell town.

Grey isn't doing anything, it seems. That is a problem with the size of that Empire because the AI needs decades to have an army ready. But I think that should not be changed because I am afraid that it will use stronger forces first of all against Pontos and Armenia.

They start with a strong army down in Syria by this modified descr_strat, but the Ptolemaioi have an army of the same strength there that usually wins the battle. At least this keeps the war between them going on.

Yellow is always eager to get the two Nabatian/Palmyrian towns. At least I consider it a progress that they now do not go for the African towns first. They are basicly keeping the wanted direction (East and North) in all games. I think they are even more concered on that Southeastern flank because you are playing Saba. Beeing close to the human player always changes the behaviour of the AI factions.


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I don't think that any rebell towns should be strengthened. According to a theory of mine, a strong garrison will in fact provoke an attack of the AI, not prevent from that. I haven't tested it so far, but I recall to have heard something like that about RTW and AI attacks on the human player.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Classical TW AI I suppose; you would reinforce a border province in MTW and the AI would respond by adding at least the same size of forces there. It would go on forever, until you hit a neglected/underpowered hinterland province through naval invasion and the AI faction would likely collapse into civil war.

I propose that strong rebel garrisons will prevent the AI from taking the provinces, rather than attacking them. I've seen it happen with and without the VC. Good old ever-returning Satres in the north notwithstanding, I've observed Roma broken down and giving up on Segestica, Getai on that Thraikian province right N. of Makedonia, AS on Gerrha etc. Once they experience a decisive defeat, they usually give up trying over an over, but you are the one with more trial and experience.

In my game Epeiros gave up on Makedonia after they repelled the homeland invasion. Presently the hot feud is between KH and the Makes. KH just got broken on Thermon but raped Korinthos and Makes seem not to be doing anything effective about it. Will observe further.
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[Mouzafphaerre]

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Have you tried making the factions that we want to fight each other (SPQR - Epeiros, Seleukeia - Ptolemaioi, Aedui - Arverni) at peace with rebels (core attitudes about, say, 200) and at war with each other (core attitudes 600)?
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[MiniMe]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...30#post1787830 this tread reminded me of one simple thing: with your victory conditions we don't need part of the script anymore. Not that their volume is comparable with the volume of puppet rulers script but even insignificant improvement in game performance is good.

[konny]

Have you tried making the factions that we want to fight each other (SPQR - Epeiros, Seleukeia - Ptolemaioi, Aedui - Arverni) at peace with rebels (core attitudes about, say, 200) and at war with each other (core attitudes 600)?

They are! That's part of the modified descr_start. It also has a mistake, I have just found out: the Romans are still at peace with the rebells even though I had removed the Epeirote from Taras. Unfortuantly, beeing not at war with someone doesn't prevent the AI from attacking, as we all know.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...30#post1787830 this tread reminded me of one simple thing: with your victory conditions we don't need part of the script anymore. Not that their volume is comparable with the volume of puppet rulers script but even insignificant improvement in game performance is good.

Yes, if everything works as it should, we won't need the respawning rebells in Central Europe for example. These are quite a lot of code lines because every units needs its own entry.

May be we can also delete some of the allied scripts, like for example KH and Sinope or Trapzont. These wars are usually triggered when Pontos and KH are far away from each other and don't have any meaning (the AI will instantly make peace again). When those towns rebell to KH they are at war anyways and won't make peace so fast.

[Janus2]

On Alex I experiment with the ai_do_not_attack_faction option for a few factions :

-for AS not to go at war with Baktria, Pahlava, Hayasdan, Pontus, Saka & Sauromatae so it should attack Ptolemaioi (or go west maybe)

-for Baktria & Pahlava not to go at Saka & Sauromatae

- for Carthage not to go at Spain : I hope they will attack Rome after they have North Africa

I would like to use the VC file to try to control the AI expansion better, but is the use of the VC file compatible with the ai_do_not_attack_faction option ?

ps : - can I just use implement the descr_win_conditions from Konny's download without using the other 2 files ?
- is the order of the regions in the VC file important ? Does the AI give more priority to regions that are first mentionned ?

[konny]

I would like to use the VC file to try to control the AI expansion better, but is the use of the VC file compatible with the ai_do_not_attack_faction option ?

Yes of course. Both files are not related.

ps : - can I just use implement the descr_win_conditions from Konny's download without using the other 2 files ?

Yes. Only when you use the changed descr_strat you need the campaign_script too.

- is the order of the regions in the VC file important ? Does the AI give more priority to regions that are first mentionned ?

No. Not that I could notice.

The AI might ignore the VCs all together for some time. That is in particular when failed more often when trying to take a VC town, or when at war with another faction outside its VC-zone.

The most important result on useing VCs is that the AI is more concerned on defending its lands than to go on conquest elsewhere. That slows its expansion down a bit, but also helps faction that are often overrun, like Makedonia, to survive.

[NEver]

I'm gonna start a Hayasdan campaign using this setup.

Alex.exe lite
Konny's 23rd Dec win conditions and strat found here just a few posts up
Fanatic's mod

I'm also using Sinuhet's battle formations mod and changed the lighting files for the battle map but obviously that will have no effect on the campaign map game

I will report on this campaign as it goes along.

[konny]

That's pretty much the same set up that I use in my Romani campaign, of TWFanatic's changes I only use the altered Hoplites formation. I had to start anew because I had changed the trait file, but intending to play this one until Imperial Periode to see what these changes do in the late and mid game.

[NEver]

Forgot to put in night battles and it was bugging me so much so I decided to start again. Here's a pic from 261 BC which is as far as I got today (Following ai movements :S)



Comments:

That orange province to my western border is actually a Koinon Hellenon province. They didn't go crazy as you'd think. It happened like this: After I took Trapezous, Konion Hellenon declared war and Pontos, now sharing a border, did the same. Pontos had a vastly vastly superior force and were marching it towards Trapezous. I failed in my attempt to sue for peace. So, after milking the province for money for a few turns, I decided to destroy every building in it, take the money that gave me, and leave it with approximately three turns till Pontos could reach it so it would rebel prior to them conquering it. It rebelled to KH, who having no interests in the region, signed a peace deal with me!

Rome refuses to advance into Sicily. Following the thread It seems its really troublesome to get Rome to advance south first but it would be very very nice if they could. Playing as Carthage in vanilla RTW you'd wish the brutii and the scipii would just leave you alone for a moment so you could deal with your problems in Spain but here we are with the opposite problem. I wonder if Rome filled the same "slot" as the house of scipii, if there is some kind of "hardcode" that would make them advance south. Probably wishful thinking.

The Getai also seem to be having a tough time doing anything but then again even Rome was stalling for a while before they launched their haywire attack on the alps, which had limited success.

Also I'd like to laud the ALX team, because switching to Alex really has made the AI far far far superior to the buggy AI in vanilla and BI.

[konny]

That orange province to my western border is actually a Koinon Hellenon province. They didn't go crazy as you'd think

Yes, there can be a quite a couple of towns rebelling to KH: most around the Black Sea, Syracusae (not sure), Massilia, Emporion, Kyrene and surely more.

I wonder if Rome filled the same "slot" as the house of scipii, if there is some kind of "hardcode" that would make them advance south. Probably wishful thinking.

Rome is in the Seleucide slot, so no. I had also noticed that Karthago isn't doing much on Sicily, or Epeiros when they happen to get Taras back by rebellion and take Rhegion afterwards. We don't know what makes the AI attack one region and leave another alone. One reason why many factions prefer to move north can be (wild speculation!) that Gotland is the old Latium region what was the target for all factions in the vanilla victory conditions, and these seems to be still hardcoded in the engine.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Have you guys tested enough with the BI exe, which lacks those harcodes (Latium, Marian Reforms, Civil War, Senate)?
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[konny]

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Have you guys tested enough with the BI exe, which lacks those harcodes (Latium, Marian Reforms, Civil War, Senate)?
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I had been playing BI.exe before changing to ALX. The hardcodes are in all exes; for sure the Marian Reforms which in EB trigger a several refroms for other factions. So I think, the other are still in too.