Defensive Logistics for the Iberian peninsula

[The Unknown Guy]

I've toying around with twin Almohads and Castilian campaigns, and have noticed that:

-Taking the Pyrenees is not worth it. Better let someone hold onto Navarre and Aragon, and put your garrisons at Valencia and Castile. That way if someone invades you, they will either have to go for Castile(which is a mountains and hills border) or Valencia (which is a river). Navarre and Aragon don't even have trade goods. Which, if you ask me, is a mistake.

-Taking Morocco, however, IS worth it. Both Castile and the Almohads have enough light armor units to make it a decent chokepoint for any incoming armies

[Martok]

Aragon doesn't have trade goods in vanilla MTW? I could've sworn it did. Even if that is the case, however, I must respectfully disagree with your assessment.

I find that holding Aragon & Navarre is still worth it as a general rule. For one thing, that's two more provinces in which you can train Jinnettes. Also, even without trade goods, both provinces still produce a pretty decent income. In addition, they both possess iron which of course allows you to produce better weapons there. Another point is that possession of these two regions makes it *much* easier for when you're ready to expand northwards into France -- I far prefer attacking over flat terrain (which is mostly what Acquitaine & Tolouse is composed of) than having to assault a fortified mountaintop position.

Perhaps just as important as all these factors, however, is the fact that by simply possessing Aragon & Navarre, you deny them to your neighbors. If you own those two provinces, then neither the French nor anyone else can take advantage of their income or the iron resources there.

Finally, the Aragonese will likely be a thorn in your side unless/until they're eliminated. Given that, it's generally best to destroy them when they're still confined to just Aragon itself.

[doctrellor]

I agree with Martok

As the French I took Aragon & Navarre to deny them to the ALmos and Castile...Funny, in that I took them from the English..lol

[Roark]

I agree with both sides of the argument, depending on the circumstances.

I can think of many situations when taking Navarre and/or Aragon would be more trouble than they're worth, especially if the Aragonese king has spawned a few sons. In this case, defending against Aragon is much less costly, resource-wise, than taking it. When you've got hordes of Muslims clamouring in the South, this is an important factor.

Also, remember that a Metalsmith takes 6 years to develop. In the early part of a campaign especially, that can be a looong time. THEN you've got to build your unit requirements. Navarre comes with bugger-all in the way of buildings.

You've gotta be pretty stable and free of Almohad threat to consider either, IMHO.

Sure, you can go for the iron-rich provinces early on (to gain an early edge), but you risk much in the meantime. Basically, 6 opportunities for the Almos to have a crack at your more important homeland provinces with decreased garrisons.

But yeah, the additional Jinette-training facilities may justify it altogether - again, depending on the circumstances.

[jadast]

I split this up. #1 I grab Valencia and Navarre. #2 I push the Almos off the penninsula. Then I take Morocco. #3 I turn on Aragon.

[The Unknown Guy]

Well, in my Almo game I didn't expand into France. I´m letting the French and the Byz battle each other out. Meanwhile I have taken over Ireland, and used it as an attack base to raid Britain (which in the Pocket Mod works as a full island, without Landbridges to France), which I've fulfilled çuite succesfully thanks to my Andalusian Infantry, with the helpful assistance of desert archerts, and some Ghulam cav. Right now Navarre is held by the English (won't last long, their king is heirless and in his fifties, after I killed the original king in London) and the Aragonese are my allies, and will likely remain so because they have lots of royal knights, and pretty much no infrastructure. Both factions are better as a shield against potential invasions (I invaded Rome, but let the Papacy remain as a dead-end in the Papal states, so attacking either of the one-province factions there will result in excommunication&rebellion for France). I've not really considered invading France. Perhaps I shall lash out at Brittany, as they have a chapterhouse there, and a pillage mission would REALLY lower their influence. Maybe to the point of civil war, making a northward expansion involving the obliteration of Aragon and the Kingdom of English Navarre.

[Caerfanan]

As it takes time to build metalsmiths, I tend to take Navarre and Aragon quite Quickly if I play the French (who don't have Iron otherwise): this to have two well developped Iron Provinces. Having Castille and Leon is a bonus (IIRC thet both have Iron also).

As a general rule, I try to get at least one metal province quickly. And furthermore, if there's no trade goods, and not that much farming revenue, you're not tempted to buil merchants and farms, so you're teching troops up quickly!