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Thread: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

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    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    So is this a crime? I personally think forgiveness is overrated, i suppose no harm no foul but we dont know fully who has been exposed.

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    TB patient: 'I hope they forgive me' 1 hour, 57 minutes ago



    An Atlanta attorney quarantined with a dangerous strain of tuberculosis apologized to his fellow plane passengers in an interview aired Friday, and insisted he was told he wasn't contagious or a threat to anyone.

    "I've lived in this state of constant fear and anxiety and exhaustion for a week now, and to think that someone else is now feeling that, I wouldn't want anyone to feel that way. It's awful," Andrew Speaker told ABC's "Good Morning America" from his hospital room in Denver.

    Sitting in street clothes but speaking through a face mask, he repeatedly apologized to the dozens of airline passengers and crew members now anxiously awaiting their own test results because of the exposure to him.

    "I don't expect for people to ever forgive me. I just hope that they understand that I truly never meant to put them in harm," he said, his voice cracking.

    Speaker, 31, said he, his doctors and the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention all knew he had TB before he flew to Europe for his wedding and honeymoon last month. But he said he was advised that he wasn't contagious or a danger to anyone. Officials said they would rather he didn't fly but no one ordered him not to, he said.

    He said his father, also a lawyer, taped that meeting.

    "My father said, 'OK, now are you saying, prefer not to go on the trip because he's a risk to anybody, or are you simply saying that to cover yourself?' And they said, we have to tell you that to cover ourself, but he's not a risk."

    Dr. Steven Katkowsky, director of the Fulton County Department of Health & Wellness, said he was told in early May not to travel to Europe: "He was told traveling is against medical advice." Dr. Martin Cetron, director of the CDC's division of global migration and quarantine, said once Speaker was in Europe, "He was told in no uncertain terms not to take a flight back."

    Speaker, his new wife and her 8-year-old daughter were already in Europe when the CDC contacted him and told him to turn himself in immediately at a clinic there and not take another commercial flight.

    Speaker said he felt as if the CDC had suddenly "abandoned him." He said he believed if he didn't get to the specialized clinic in Denver, he would die.

    "Before I left, I knew that it was made clear to me, that in order to fight this, I had one shot, and that was going to be in Denver," he said. If doctors in Europe tried to treat him and it went wrong, he said, "it's very real that I could have died there."

    Even though U.S. officials had put Speaker on a warning list, he caught a flight to Montreal and then drove across the U.S. border on May 24 at Champlain, N.Y. A border inspector who checked him disregarded a computer warning to stop Speaker, officials said Thursday.

    The unidentified inspector later said the infected man seemed perfectly healthy and that he thought the warning was merely "discretionary," officials briefed on the case told The Associated Press. They spoke on condition of anonymity because the matter is still under investigation.

    The inspector ran Speaker's passport through a computer, and a warning — including instructions to hold the traveler, don a protective mask in dealing with him, and telephone health authorities — popped up, officials said. About a minute later, Speaker was instead cleared to continue on his journey, according to officials familiar with the records. The inspector has since been removed from border duty.

    Colleen Kelley, president of the union that represents customs and border agents, declined to comment on the specifics of the case, but said "public health issues were not receiving adequate attention and training" within the agency.

    The next day, Speaker became the first infected person quarantined by the U.S. government since 1963.

    He was flown by medical transport Thursday to National Jewish Medical and Research Center, where doctors put him in an isolation room where he will be treated with oral and intravenous antibiotics.

    Speaker's new father-in-law, Robert C. Cooksey, is a CDC microbiologist whose specialty is TB and other bacteria, but he said neither he nor his CDC lab was the source of Speaker's TB.

    The disclosure that the patient is a lawyer — and specifically a personal injury lawyer — outraged many people on the Internet and elsewhere. Some travelers who flew on the same planes with Speaker angrily accused him of selfishly putting hundreds of people's lives in danger.

    "It's still very scary," 21-year-old Laney Wiggins, one of more than two dozen University of South Carolina-Aiken students who are getting skin tests for TB. "That is an outrageous number of people that he was very reckless with their health. It's not fair. It's selfish."

    Speaker's new wife, Sarah, fought back tears as she told ABC about the horrible things said had heard said about her husband: that he was a terrorist, that he should have been eradicated.

    "Imagine sitting in a foreign country with your husband and your government saying they were going to leave you there," she said through tears.

    She said she has tested negative for TB, despite being closer to him over the past month than anyone, and she is praying no one else tests positive for the disease.

    Both Speaker and his father-in-law said they didn't believe he was a danger when he left for Europe.

    "I never would have put my family at risk, and my daughter at risk. I repeatedly asked my doctors, 'Is my family at risk? Is anybody at risk of this?'" Speaker said. "They told me I wasn't contagious and I wasn't dangerous."

    Speaker said he and his wife were "scared out of our minds" at the prospect of being indefinitely placed in an Italian hospital and dying there.

    "In hindsight, maybe it wasn't the best decision, but I did ask if it was voluntary. And in my mind, I thought that if I went there, if I waited until they showed up, that meant I was going to die," Speaker said.

    "I know people will judge it," he said. "Truly, in our minds, we were told we were not a threat to the people around us and we wanted to get home.

    "I just hope they can forgive me."

    Dr. Charles Daley, chief of the National Jewish Hospital's infectious-disease division, said he is optimistic Speaker can be cured because he is appears to be in the early stages of the disease.

    He is "a young, healthy individual" who is "doing extremely well," Dr. Gwen Huitt said Thursday.

    "By conventional methods that we traditionally use in the public health arena ... he would be considered low infectivity at this point in time," she said. "He is not coughing, he is healthy, he does not have a fever."

    Doctors hope to determine where he contracted the disease, which has been found around the world and exists in pockets in Russia and Asia. The tuberculosis was discovered by accident when Speaker had a chest X-ray in January for a rib injury, Huitt said.


    TB patient: 'I hope they forgive me'

    Is this getting any press in Europe?
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    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by article
    Speaker's new father-in-law, Robert C. Cooksey, is a CDC microbiologist whose specialty is TB and other bacteria, but he said neither he nor his CDC lab was the source of Speaker's TB.
    This was the part that interested me the most when I read about it yesterday. I expect the father-in-law and the CDC to be in full CYA mode shortly.
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    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by Odin
    So is this a crime? I personally think forgiveness is overrated, i suppose no harm no foul but we dont know fully who has been exposed.

    Is this getting any press in Europe?
    Well he didn't so much fly to Europe, he flew to Paris.
    So it's getting some press, yes. I think he's an irresponsible . It's like having a deadly STD, knowing you have one, and then having unprotected sex without informing your partner. Bah.
    Oh - and then asking for forgiveness a week later while crying about the unfortunate position you're in.

    Sucks to be him, sure. Only being able to attend your own wedding in Europe at the risk of endangering hundreds.
    No harm no foul? I think our cunning lawyer was rather more aware of the risks than he's leading people on to believe. Even if nobody turns up infected, he should still be charged with putting unknowing bystanders in lethal danger.
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    Member Member Del Arroyo's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    This is news? I knew a guy who went his whole first semester of college with TB, and then found out he had it, and his whole class had to get treated.

    No one has a right to be that mad at this guy.

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    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Arroyo
    This is news? I knew a guy who went his whole first semester of college with TB, and then found out he had it, and his whole class had to get treated.

    No one has a right to be that mad at this guy.
    Do you know what TB is?!
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    Member Senior Member Proletariat's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    And how difficult it is to treat the sort of TB he's carrying? This isn't your run of the mill hand out a month's supply of cipro to a class of kids and it's done with TB.

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    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Well he didn't so much fly to Europe, he flew to Paris.
    So it's getting some press, yes. I think he's an irresponsible . It's like having a deadly STD, knowing you have one, and then having unprotected sex without informing your partner. Bah.
    Oh - and then asking for forgiveness a week later while crying about the unfortunate position you're in.

    Sucks to be him, sure. Only being able to attend your own wedding in Europe at the risk of endangering hundreds.
    No harm no foul? I think our cunning lawyer was rather more aware of the risks than he's leading people on to believe. Even if nobody turns up infected, he should still be charged with putting unknowing bystanders in lethal danger.
    Boy Louis are the planets in line today?

    Thats along the lines of something I would say...
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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Arroyo
    This is news? I knew a guy who went his whole first semester of college with TB, and then found out he had it, and his whole class had to get treated.

    No one has a right to be that mad at this guy.
    Did you even read the story? The guy knew he had TB before he flew. And even better, before he decided to fly back, was told that he had a highly contagious, drug resistant form of TB and was told explicitly not to fly. He did so anyway.

    No one should be mad at him? That's quite a different story than what you outlined.

    He was told not to fly in the first place- he claims they didn't really mean it the first time. Even if that's true, he still isn't exhibiting the level of common sense that most people are born with. If I was diagnosed with TB, the last thing I would do is hop on a plane to Europe to get married while awaiting further test results.
    Last edited by Xiahou; 06-01-2007 at 19:33.
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    There's a lot of things about this story that I suspect has yet to be revealed. Too many weird coincidences, and what's up with the border patrol letting him in when he's right on the "No Entry" list? The father-in-law? I don't know, something smells very fishy.

    As for facing criminal penalties, absolutely. He knowingly acted in a way that endangered a lot of people. No different then driving drunk. Just because he didn't injure anybody doesn't absolve him of guilt, IMHO.
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    Member Member Del Arroyo's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    Yeah, if any of you were suddenly diagnosed with TB, it would be totally different, right? I bet some of you would even be willing to donate your lungs to medical research-- you know, for the common good.

    The fact that no one was hurt yet people are still willing to be so angry is yet one more testament to the potential shrillness of our over-educated, risk-"free" society.

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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    If I was suddenly diagnosed with TB, I might not appreciate quarantine, but I certainly wouldn't be exposing hundreds of people by flying when under advisement specifically not to.

    One could argue (and I am) the reason he's quarantined now is that he showed a blatant disregard to any less punitive measures that allowed him any say in the matter.
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    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Arroyo
    Yeah, if any of you were suddenly diagnosed with TB, it would be totally different, right?
    Hhhmmmm you mean the rare one he was diagnosed with? Yeah, Id take the doctors orders on that one.

    I bet some of you would even be willing to donate your lungs to medical research-- you know, for the common good.
    I'm an organ donor, when Im dead they can have all the parts if they like.

    The fact that no one was hurt yet people are still willing to be so angry is yet one more testament to the potential shrillness of our over-educated, risk-"free" society.
    Maybe so but on top of all this he is a personal injury lawyer he took those flights with that diagnosis and that profession. Is this a leslie neilson movie?
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    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    Drug resistant TB is not to be taken lightly. In my profession we are screened and tested every year because of the higher than normal occurance of this disease in the inmate population (there has been at least one officer that I know of that contracted this nasty strain and died). Intervenous drug users; people who can't afford to or won't get health care, and many times fail to follow through with any treatment they do get make up a large part of the inmate population. TB is also a disease that sneaks up on you, and can be carried dormant in ones body for years with no symptoms (the symptoms also mimic other less serious conditions like flu or common colds); till your immune system is weakened by injury or another unrelated illness. Immigrant populations in large cities like New York are especially vulnerable, usually ignorant of the importance of following through on treatment at free community clinics, discontinue the antibiotic regimen because they feel better, then disappear into the concrete jungle among all the other transients. This man, however, has no excuse for being so reckless.
    The Border Inspector employee is even more liable in my opinion; this dummy really screwed up big time. I imagine there has been a major pre-shift briefing reminder on proper procedures in such situations at every Border Patrol post in the US.
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    Medical Welshman in London. Senior Member Big King Sanctaphrax's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    The fact that no one was hurt yet people are still willing to be so angry is yet one more testament to the potential shrillness of our over-educated, risk-"free" society.
    So if I drive drunk but don't hit anyone, that's cool?

    It's not as if the Italian medical system is awful, either. The way he talks about 'dying in some Italian hospital' you'd think he was trapped in Sierra Leone or something.
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    Consumption has to be one of the most horrifying things known to man. Poor bugger has a non curable strain.
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    Member Member Del Arroyo's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax
    So if I drive drunk but don't hit anyone, that's cool?
    I'm not sure that's such a good example. You probably know lots of people who have driven drunk before, and odds are you have yourself-- it just never got plastered all over the media machine for people to gawk at.

    I've been in the passenger's seat a few times, and yeah, they didn't hit anyone, so I wasn't a dick about it. There have also been times when I have taken the keys away-- but, for example, "they need an act of congress to take my rank, now get in the g-damned car" can be kind of hard to argue with.

    Handle things on a case-by-case basis and don't hold grudges.

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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    If his punishment serves as nothing more than a reminder to the next SoB that thinks of himself above those he would willingly endanger with a contagious disease than I say punish him under the law.
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Arroyo
    I've been in the passenger's seat a few times, and yeah, they didn't hit anyone, so I wasn't a dick about it.
    So yes, drunk driving is fine if you don't hit anyone. No one died this time, so no need to be a 'dick' about it.

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    Even if none of the people contract TB from him, just being exposed is no picnic. You still have to undergo batteries of Xrays and take about a years worth of meds just to be on the safe side. That's probably what the people who were lucky enough to sit next to this jerk have to look forward to at the very least.
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    Member Member KafirChobee's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by Proletariat
    So yes, drunk driving is fine if you don't hit anyone. No one died this time, so no need to be a 'dick' about it.
    It is my understanding that the man was told he could not fly, because of the contageous stage of his TB. He flew anyway, knowing he was exposing hundreds to the possability of contracting it.

    TB was, a short time ago, contained and all but resolved. Thing is, we (world health authoritys) got complaisant and sloppy - just as they have been with measles, mumps, chicken pox, polio, etc. As the viruses get stronger - evolve, our medicines get weaker and the resolve to think them serious becomes weakened (since 1st world kids ain't dying of them - except the poor) - it is acceptable for some to make light of a "typhoid Mary" flying on a plane.

    Thing is, as already pointed out, the new strains of TB are killers. There is no cure. Not now, and some say not in the near future because they have evolved beyond our knowledge of them (or ability to ....).

    What would these same people say of a person that knows they have AIDs dating their son or daughter? Or, did their kids take the pledge? [oops]. It all then makes sense - that one can be high and mighty about a man possibly contaminating a few hundred or so commoners they don't know (you do know that the air on a plane is recirculated? Is how they so easily banned smoking from flights) and think this is some kind of "personal freedom". #Where as, these same fops accept the new rules allotted the NSA - oh well, lets not be political on a health issue. Simply wouldn't be "right".

    All the people on that flight have law suits against 'him' - in the U.S., atleast - for putting them in unwarrented harm without warning. I mean, had he step on the Plane and said, "I got uncurable TB", then the passengers had the choice of staying or leaving. He gave them no such choice.

    The "dick" needs to be prosecutes to the fullness of the law.

    TB, btw, can take up to a year (or more) to manisfest itself. It is a sneaky little thing. And, the latest strains do kill one. Nice. real nice guy, knowing what he was doing, and doing it anyway.

    BTW, the driving while drunk analogy? Lame at best.

    Why not use a child molester gets away with it, is it really mollestation?

    Makes as much sense.
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    Member Member KafirChobee's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    sorry. Some don't get it.
    Last edited by KafirChobee; 06-02-2007 at 07:15.
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    Member Senior Member Proletariat's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    Quote Originally Posted by KafirChobee
    TB, btw, can take up to a year (or more) to manisfest itself. It is a sneaky little thing. And, the latest strains do kill one. Nice. real nice guy, knowing what he was doing, and doing it anyway.
    I agree completely, was aiming for sarcasm with my response to Del.

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    Speaker said he felt as if the CDC had suddenly "abandoned him." He said he believed if he didn't get to the specialized clinic in Denver, he would die.
    Then why pray tell not go straight to the clinic to save ones life rather then detouring to Europe while 'dieing'.

    Seems like a grade-a selfish pig, as for the rest exposed to him I hope they sue him for all he has on the basis of emotional suffering. Seems the father-in-law should have his credentials reviewed if he can't even give sage advice to his son-in-law... or maybe he really really doesn't like him.
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    Member Member Caerfanan's Avatar
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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    IMHO, each case is unique.

    I know that our society is slowly criminalizing any single tiny risk (when people die by the hundred someplaces else, btw), and that it has to be tampered (not sur about the word): I mean, if I were a doctor in certain places, I would refuse to take care of people, because I could get so many lawsuits... And I think that this is bad

    However, about this TB infected person flying over the seas uncaring, I won't say "well, no harm, no foul". This is madness. Of course being rejected because you're sick must be hard. Does it give you a reason to be irresponsible?

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    Default Re: What about this guy ? (tuberculosis issue)

    Terminally stupid.

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