2 turns to train on Huge unit size?!!!

[edyzmedieval]

Now that I got my MTW copy to work without problems, I experienced something intriguing. Since I have a much better computer than I had before when I played MTW, I maxxed out on everything.

So, playing as the Egyptians, on Expert, I noticed that on Huge unit size it takes 2 turns to train a unit. Is it my copy or is it general?

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi edyzmedieval,
Don't worry! It's nothing unusual - my copy of the game (M:TW Gold Edition published by PC Gamer) does the same thing as well.

[caravel]

I have always played on huge unit size and thus had to cope with the 2 years training time. It doesn't affect agents or small 20 man units such as the Royal Knights or Ghulam Bodyguards but it does effect all other units.

[naut]

It has to do with the "unit scalable" Boolean in the unit_prod files, if you want to get technical.

[doctrellor]

I didn't know about huge units?

what is the size difference netween huge and normal?

[edyzmedieval]

Well, for example, Nubian Spearmen have 60 units on Normal, and 200 units on Huge.

@Omanes

Stop calling me "Hi edyzmedieval". Gah! You know me already!

@Rythmic

O RLY? Then I must change the booleans.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Stop calling me "Hi edyzmedieval". Gah! You know me already!

Sorry.

[Ironside]

I didn't know about huge units?

what is the size difference netween huge and normal?

Small 0,5X
Normal 1X
Large = 1,33X (IIRC, or it's 1,5X)
Huge size = 2X

Not all units follow this scaling (general bodyguards for example), but I'm not certain how that works.

Numibian spearmen does follow that scaling though.

[caravel]

The 20 man bodyguard units don't scale because they're set to non scalable in the unit prod file.

Unit sizes are:

Small: 1/2x
Default: 1x
Medium: 1 1/3x
Large: 1 2/3x
Huge: 2x

[Ironside]

Damn forgot one size

[doctrellor]

so how do I change to the new sizes? thru options somewhere?

and would my old champaigns change thier stuff over, or would it only change on new champaigns?

[caravel]

so how do I change to the new sizes? thru options somewhere?

Options - Performance - Unit Size

and would my old champaigns change thier stuff over, or would it only change on new champaigns?

No only for new campaigns.

[edyzmedieval]

Sorry.

Come on mate, you know me already.

At least Huge unit sizes are more realistic than the small ones. I cant imagine battles without 200 men per unit.

[King Kurt]

I always play on normal size, so I wondered what effect the large units have on the tactical battle? They take up more room, so more difficult to flank and do they hang about a bit longer? - or does the increased number of people shooting/ fighting cancel that out?
Finally, with units taking twice as long to produce, how is the strategic game changed. Are things a little slower? Are ships, agents more important? What about mercs? - they must be even more useful now. I'd be interested to hear what people's experiences were.

[caravel]

I can't really tell you the difference as I've never played on anything lower than huge or maybe large once or twice.

[Peasant Phill]

There is also a difference in playing style between normal and huge units.

Spearmen and other big units will become more powerfull as they will get relatively more units then others. As such, cav will get relatively weaker in comparison to infantry because they get less additional units.

[doctrellor]

I was playing last night into the wee hours, and also today..I played a variety of factions especially the first 30 years on each since the openings seem so damn important...

summary: The beginning is a PAIN! depending on faction

defensive factions have more time to set.. and so timing is less of an issue
(Armenians, Bohemia, Aragon, Papacy)

Offensive (and I mean HIGHLY) offensive factions will be hindered in that timing is even MORE critical and risks have to be weighed. Provs that dont produce will be critical in the beginning until defended. So strategic thought plays into exactly where one goes and how.
(Danes, Almos, Eggys, Castile, Lithuania, Novo, Poland, Volga, Crusaders)

Mixed factions have a better balance and so timing, "empty" provs, and so one will be less of an issue, but still there
(English, France, HRE, Italian states)

Ships, Mercs, faster build buildings are more critical

Generally once one is "set", then play is normal again as to those who started with the default sized and now playing the huge size (like me)

As for the above post.. I agree, I build more spearmen and UM's right away with horsies as support now

The funnest faction so far with huge units is a tie between Early Eggys and High Crusader states.. since I generally backstab allies like mad and play agressively

[Martok]

I always play on normal size, so I wondered what effect the large units have on the tactical battle? They take up more room, so more difficult to flank and do they hang about a bit longer? - or does the increased number of people shooting/ fighting cancel that out?
Finally, with units taking twice as long to produce, how is the strategic game changed. Are things a little slower? Are ships, agents more important? What about mercs? - they must be even more useful now. I'd be interested to hear what people's experiences were.

I second Kurt's questions. I've always played with Normal-sized units largely because of balance issues (and to a lesser degree, the restricted ability to maneuver). However, given that Caravel's Pocket Mod helps rectify some of the balance problems (bodyguard units are now scalable), I confess I'm a little curious to try it out.

[scowie]

The 2 year training time makes for a more challenging game as you dont have the option of suddenly training a unit in a province the moment a large army or crusade turns up next door. You have to plan a bit further ahead

[Cleon of Sparta]

Does the units on large scale ttake 2 year to construct?

[Brandy Blue]

The 20 man bodyguard units don't scale because they're set to non scalable in the unit prod file.

What about Byzantine Katanks when they are used as royal guards? Are they scalable?

I ask because it just occurred to me that playing on small size might make it more challenging to be the Byzantine faction. If the Katank guards do scale down, then they would no longer have the advantage of double sized guards compared to other factions. (Of course there are boyar body guards for the Russians. I think they have 40 on default size.)

Also, the mighty-big-for-swordsmen Byzantine Infantry would have a smaller numerical advantage over other swordsmen, though the ratio would remain the same.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Does the units on large scale ttake 2 year to construct?

Yep Cleon of Sparta, due to scalability in M:TW, it does. Sorry.

[Cleon of Sparta]

i jsut tried it the other night and it actually doesnt :) on large scale

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Sorry Cleon, didn't read the question properly - I though you mean huge. Appologies.

[dude]

Can you change it to take only one turn to build, or will that cause problems?

[therussian91]

Not only does it take two years (which personally, I like), but it also cuts your units in half during sieges (when you're the one being besieged).


But yeah, I think it does have a lot of effect for units, especially spearmen, who fight best in deep formation (which is harder to do with smaller unit sizes)