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Thread: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

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    Master of the Horse Senior Member Pindar's Avatar
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    Default Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Of those Orgahs who self-identity as Left or Left leaning: who do you consider among other Orgah's as your most compelling spokesman? I mean by this, who do you see as the most effective proponent for your general position? This could include either active or previously active members. Please limit choices to a maximum of three persons.

    Those who do not identify themselves as on the Left may also wish to participate. Could such posters note a bolded NL (as in non-Left) before their comment to distinguish themselves?

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    Mystic Bard Member Soulforged's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pindar
    Of those Orgahs who self-identity as Left or Left leaning: who do you consider among other Orgah's as your most compelling spokesman? I mean by this, who do you see as the most effective proponent for your general position? This could include either active or previously active members. Please limit choices to a maximum of three persons.
    I'll have to say Aenlic for sure, though I'm not a leftist per se, I do tend to the left.
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    Insomniac and tired of it Senior Member Slyspy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    For what purpose?
    "Put 'em in blue coats, put 'em in red coats, the bastards will run all the same!"

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    EB II Romani Consul Suffectus Member Zaknafien's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    No doubt to be entered into a government watchlist :)


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    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulforged
    I'll have to say Aenlic for sure, though I'm not a leftist per se, I do tend to the left.
    Come to think of it, where is he?

    Apologies to Pindar for hijacking the thread.

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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    I think the Org has many intelligent, well spoken representatives of left leaning ideology. I imagine of all of them, Devastatin Dave would have to be listed as the most glib.

    Seriously, are we talking who has made the best arguments for the Left, or who is the most consistent, and eloquent, spokesman? Cause I actually find the best Left arguments put forward by those who do not always take up the Left view.
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    Member Senior Member Proletariat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Who on this board actually proclaims to be a Leftist, anyway? I can't think of anyone, except for JAG, who actually admits to it.

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    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Proletariat
    Who on this board actually proclaims to be a Leftist, anyway? I can't think of anyone, except for JAG, who actually admits to it.
    Well, I am something of a Leftist. Enough to admit it. Yet I find myself to the right of many of my peers quite strangely in some issues at least.

    Pindar: What would you consider to be a Leftist? Right now I'm assuming that self-identification is all that matters; is that a right assumption to work from?

    Having said that, I don't really think myself to be, ah, worthy or decisive enough to say clearly who I think makes the best "spokesman" for "my side." What if I disagree with that person on certain crucial issues? Are we still in the same wavelength by then?

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    Master of the Horse Senior Member Pindar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyspy
    For what purpose?
    To see who Left and Left leaning Orgahs think is their most compelling spokesman/most effective proponent.

    "We are lovers of beauty without extravagance and of learning without loss of vigor." -Thucydides

    "The secret of Happiness is Freedom, and the secret of Freedom, Courage." -Thucydides

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    Master of the Horse Senior Member Pindar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    Seriously, are we talking who has made the best arguments for the Left, or who is the most consistent, and eloquent, spokesman? Cause I actually find the best Left arguments put forward by those who do not always take up the Left view.
    The question does not look at individual arguments, but for a judgment of person(s) who the like mined typically see as best at advancing their general point of view. Your second sentence would seem to be an indictment of the believers ability to present their case.

    I also allowed room where the unbelievers can also weigh in on who they think puts forward the best position for the opposition.

    "We are lovers of beauty without extravagance and of learning without loss of vigor." -Thucydides

    "The secret of Happiness is Freedom, and the secret of Freedom, Courage." -Thucydides

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    Master of the Horse Senior Member Pindar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
    Pindar: What would you consider to be a Leftist? Right now I'm assuming that self-identification is all that matters; is that a right assumption to work from?
    I consider Left or Left leaning to be a general category that covers: socialist, collectivist and Marxist thought (and its theoretical children) as well as a larger penchant to appeal to the state to resolve issues of inequity or other social/economic concerns distinct from any military role . Left or Left leaning therefore also includes the idea often termed progressive or progressivism. Self identifying as Left or Left leaning is also fine.

    Having said that, I don't really think myself to be, ah, worthy or decisive enough to say clearly who I think makes the best "spokesman" for "my side." What if I disagree with that person on certain crucial issues? Are we still in the same wavelength by then?
    If there is a issue that you consider defining (essential) for the moniker that another does not share then you should not include them as a candidate for your cause. Even so, there is an old Reagan maxim about if one agrees with 80% of your own beliefs, it is sufficient.

    "We are lovers of beauty without extravagance and of learning without loss of vigor." -Thucydides

    "The secret of Happiness is Freedom, and the secret of Freedom, Courage." -Thucydides

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    Member Member Beren Son Of Barahi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    I would put AdrianII's name in the ring. Very well researched and has quite a wide range of knowledge.

    tribsey as well... if he may not be the most polite of orgahs. (to the right wing that is).
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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Proletariat
    Who on this board actually proclaims to be a Leftist, anyway? I can't think of anyone, except for JAG, who actually admits to it.
    I consider myself a hardline Socialist. Though, I am not too active in the backrooom, jsut no time to read through teh threads. Also, religious arguments (Half the threads in here) just aren't my thing.

    would put AdrianII's name in the ring. Very well researched and has quite a wide range of knowledge.
    Seconded.
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    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    TosaInu and Ser Clegane.

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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    For me when I was posting a fair bit, it was always Ser and Adrian, whose opinions I always looked forward to reading from a more progressive outlook.

    But then again those were the members who were evident the last time I was posting here, and there were many before them and I am sure since I ceased posting so much, who are also very worthy of a good read.
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    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Hmmm. To be redundant:

    JAG, Aenlic, Ser Clegane and Adrian II.
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    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Meh, not too sure what category I have slapped myself to yet.
    Probabaly Left leaning.
    So I guess, Tribesman.

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    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Aenlic however, categorises himself as an anarchist, and thus may well reject right/left labels.

    He is certainly missed though.

    As to the question posed by Pindar, further illuminated by his offered definition, I'm afraid I can't find an answer. The breadth of leftist thought is wide, particularly in Europe, and most of the posters that might be considered "left" often argue from a right-wing perspective too - since our "liberal" is much closer to the original meaning.

    To go by self-identification, the candidates would resolve to JAG (good to see you back) and possibly Idaho.

    Watchman probably embodies the character of the European left most of all, though I'd be surprised if he laid public claim to the mantle. Similarly with Adrian II - I don't see many of his views as being traditionally leftist at all, and I think he would reject the label proposed.

    Over the pond, Zaknafien has recently established himself as an eloquent anti-government debater, but being anti-government does not a socialist make (honestly Gawain, this is true ). Beirut has many opinions that mirror European moderates, but then Quebec is practically Europe anyhow . solypsist was possibly the nearest to a spokesman over there - also much missed.

    In short then: dunno.

    Louis is the only hardline communist agitator I can think of offhand.
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    Senior Member Senior Member English assassin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    I'm not persuaded we really have any posters at all who satisfy what I would understand by Pindar's definition, other than JAG in the old days. Econ21 hasn't been mentioned and may come close, and puts forward thoughtful points of view.

    Broadening slightly to include the liberal/progressive viewpoint, (by which incidently I obviously mean something different to Pindar as I do not regard a penchant for state intervention as remotely progressive, quite the opposite), then as well as the names above, y'all forgetting the Goofball.

    Tribsey gets my vote as boot boy of the liberals. Go Tribes
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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Watchman glorifies the scandinavian model, and so do I.... So I guess it would have to be him.

    BTW, proletariat, I'm an utter leftist, and somewhat marxist(well, partly anyway)...
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
    Louis is the only hardline communist agitator I can think of offhand.
    Hey, I'm on the norwegian communist party's election list for the next election!
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    I've always looked forward to reading Beirut and Ser's opinions. Though I don't think I'm actually all that much of a leftist, even though I find socialist ideology sometimes quite seductive. I've definately edged a bit further left in my year in the old German Democratic Republic, but how far left I've gone isn't all that clear to me at the moment.
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    Senior Member Senior Member English assassin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore
    Hey, I'm on the norwegian communist party's election list for the next election!
    I salute your heroic stand against the tide of history and all the lessons of tha past 80 years. (A stand given a delicious irony by your status as a marxist).

    I wouldn't give up the day job though.
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    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
    Beirut has many opinions that mirror European moderates, but then Quebec is practically Europe anyhow .
    And to you too. (The only reason Quebec is like Europe is because Quebec is as big as Europe.)

    If we're talking leftist as in socialized medicine, then it's me.
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    Member Member Petrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    I think Gawayn of orkeny and panzerjager are perfect heralds of my personal progressive standing in the negative sense.

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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin
    I've always looked forward to reading Beirut and Ser's opinions. Though I don't think I'm actually all that much of a leftist, even though I find socialist ideology sometimes quite seductive. I've definately edged a bit further left in my year in the old German Democratic Republic, but how far left I've gone isn't all that clear to me at the moment.
    You will be assimilated...

    Well, as a rightwing european christian nutter, I cannot choose a leftist to represent me I guess, but I'll go for Tribesman anyway.


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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    I salute your heroic stand against the tide of history and all the lessons of tha past 80 years. (A stand given a delicious irony by your status as a marxist).

    I wouldn't give up the day job though.
    We got 24 votes in our county last time, I'm practically voted in!
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    JAG and Watchman are teh prototypes of the radical left for me. Obviously they don't represent my views.

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    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    I must bring up Brenus. Old-guard socialist, well educated and very factual. I sorely miss him.

    Shajikata strikes me as classical Nordic Social-Democrat. And a great spokesman of it too. He's not really around much anymore. He's also not as left-wing as that Norwegian communist Hore.

    Also InsaneApache. I really admire his unrelenting opposition to Blair, whom IA despises for having destroyed old Labour.


    Most of the others have been mentioned. The difficulty is not in naming intelligent, eloquent posters, but in finding truly leftist ones. JAG and Idaho obviously. Watchman maybe. Tribesy is a great rightwing BS-detector. Goofball would qualify. Adrian Too.
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    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evaluating the Left and Left leaning Orgah mind(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony
    Obviously they don't represent my views.
    Too late. Pindar specifically said that non-leftists have to put NL before their names, otherwise they get put on the list as well.

    That's EA and you for the chop.

    One cross each, line on the left.
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