Query about V&Vs

**Caerfanan** · 06-07-2007, 09:46

Wow, Agent Miles, that's some piece of information!

Thanks a lot!

I guess there is something like a morale test every X seconds in the battle for each unit?

The morale modifiers look like huge as compared to starting values and/or maluses/bonuses from battle circumstances. A very tired outnumbered unit down hill has something like -12 morale...

Man I would so much have an opportunity to see a unit actual stat when wanted...

**doctrellor** · 06-07-2007, 13:24

Thx for the info

No wonder my Boyars rock

They usually have like 3 to 5 valor when starting out and after a few battles, I have seen 7 or 8 valor..so with the King and a few Princes, I could have like 400 boyars on the field ready to do a buttload of damage...

good info

**Agent Miles** · 06-07-2007, 15:17

Caerfanan, The way I learned to use morale is to save and then watch battle replays. By cursoring over your units during a battle, you can see an approximation of their morale, steady or wavering, etc. During a replay, you can do this with the AI units too. You can experiment and see when and where it is best to apply force to get the best result. In my Jaffa AAR, https://s132.photobucket.com/albums/...ntMiles/Jaffa/
you can see Saladin’s larger army chain routing after I send my footknights into a gap in his lines. I don’t even attack his units with the knights. The mere presence of my knights on his flank causes his unit to waver and rout. Morale is a very important aspect of the battle.

**Caerfanan** · 06-11-2007, 10:57

Wow, documented explanations and all!

What surprises me in the battles is how huge can be the "circumstances modifiers" in frotn of the actual morale values of the units. Buth then this gives to the good tacticians a way to win battles "lost on the paper".

**scowie** · 06-16-2007, 14:11

Some V&Vs affect the entire army, some affect the general's unit and some affect just the general himself. I don't think you can say that all valour related ones are of the same type.

e.g. there is one virtue about the general being good in personal combat, in that case I think it is just him who gets the valour boost, whereas the one about him inspiring great deads in his men affects his unit. There is no valour related V&V that affects a whole army's valour (unless you count command rating V&Vs).

I think all morale-related V&Vs affect all the people under the general/captain, so if it is a general who has it, the whole army gets the morale boost, if it's a captain, then it's just the unit.

**caravel** · 06-16-2007, 22:55

Welcome scowie 1, I know of you from the .com, but perhaps you don't remember me. It is quite a while since I was a regular poster there.

Originally Posted by scowie

Some V&Vs affect the entire army, some affect the general's unit and some affect just the general himself. I don't think you can say that all valour related ones are of the same type.

e.g. there is one virtue about the general being good in personal combat, in that case I think it is just him who gets the valour boost, whereas the one about him inspiring great deads in his men affects his unit. There is no valour related V&V that affects a whole army's valour (unless you count command rating V&Vs).

I'm not sure about vices/virtues affecting personal valour. From what I've seen those v&vs affect the whole unit, the change is visible. A valour boost affecting the general only would not be visible and not have that much value. The pride vice for example always affects the entire unit, despite it referring to the individual himself, but not the whole army.

Originally Posted by scowie

I think all morale-related V&Vs affect all the people under the general/captain, so if it is a general who has it, the whole army gets the morale boost, if it's a captain, then it's just the unit.

Yes, in basic terms, apart from the generals specific stats of loyalty, command, piety, dread and acumen, valour has a per unit affect and a morale penalty/bonus affects all units under that generals command when in battle, whether they are in the unit or in the army.

**scowie** · 06-23-2007, 01:46

Originally Posted by Caravel

I'm not sure about vices/virtues affecting personal valour. From what I've seen those v&vs affect the whole unit, the change is visible. A valour boost affecting the general only would not be visible and not have that much value. The pride vice for example always affects the entire unit, despite it referring to the individual himself, but not the whole army.

I think you're right actually, but what made me think that is something else that I have noticed...

It seems that the valour boost from these virtues is given to the men in the generals unit at the time the virtue appears. That means that if some of these men die in battle and are replaced with green men by merging with another unit, the greens do not get the valour boost from their new leader.

This is evidenced in my current campaign by finding a couple of enemy generals with virtues giving +2 valour, yet the unit only has a 1 valour average. I have noticed this phenomenon in the past when merging units myself too.