Sweboz (Germans) slightly underpowered

[Lowenklee]

No offense, but I'm afraid your analysis is falling prey to what could be maliciously termed "fanboyism" here. To put the counter-argument in very simple and brief terms: historically, nobody ever used them little tough horses as the war-mount of choice if and when something bigger and stronger was available and sustainable. And there were some pretty good reasons for that. Oh, the little critters may be hardy and enduring, well able to "live off the land" (although grazing takes so much time the usefulness of this to a military unit is a bit debatable), and decent enough for overland transportation; but what is needed of a warhorse is a fair bit different. People did not devote enormous time, attention and resources to producing specialized breeds for the job just for fun after all. The little horses were used when nothing better was available for one reason or another; I don't think anyone ever hesitated to swap when something bigger and stronger became an option.

Hello Watchman,

Thanks for the reply but there's no fanboism on my part. I'm not emotionally invested in any one specific faction or unit. I'm more concerned with the enjoyment and educational merit of the mod as a whole. This forum presents a wonderful chance to explore such subjects and I approach this discussion with a lighthearted curiosity, no offense taken

On the issue of horses I just happen to have a background growing up with small native breeds and am personally familiar with their historical use in southern Germany and Tirol where, often times, ponies were specifically desired over horses due to their hardiness, stamina, and sure footedness. Ponies also tended to be cheaper for a number of obvious reasons.

I'd also like to mention that I have no evidence to suggest the Germans actually used ponies other then reasonable likelihood and the existence of such small native horses, some with long histories of use, within German speaking countries today. It's conjecture on my part.

My point however was that the use of ponies or small horses does not equal inferiority. The small steppe ponies employed by, among others, the Mongols make as good an example as any to illustrate that. Regardless of the merits of larger horses German cavalry are documented as being quite able to successfully engage and route larger numbers of opposing Celtic cavalry, this isn't currently represented, so to refocus on the original issue with the Ridoharjoz...

As currently implemented within the mod, a player may be led to believe that the ancient Germans fielded poor quality cavalry compared to the Celtic light cavalry. If this is not the EB team's position then perhaps something is amiss with unit balance? Even with the inclusion of a Sweboz reform the ability to recruit heavier cavalry does not really address the Ridoharjoz question.

If an implementation for swift runner accompaniment is impossible, or some novel approach to approximate dismounting during close-in fighting is impossible, should the Ridoharjoz be compensated with a stat adjustment to give them an advantage over the Leuce Epos? If not, why?

*edit*

"my current idea on the addition of a new MED-ish cavalry is an alternate skin for some horseman model (we have no space for new units) which will be a "proven" or "champion" rider or early "horse retainer" unit. This horse unit will represent the superiority of the higher class Germanic horsemen over the standard issue Leuce Epos and yet still be very similar to the Ridoharjoz. The regular Ridoharjoz should not be automatically superior, because the examples of Celtic defeat against German cavalry was not a representation of the Celts during their heyday and the Germans at that time suredly had experienced units on that front rather than conscripts more accurately portrayed by the normal Ridoharjoz".

Whoops, seems I missed that post. Thanks Blitzkrieg, apparently I have my answer! I still hold out hope that the Hrussáthêwáz might make an appearance and I"m still interested in your thoughts on the Batavian cavalry? Perhaps there is information on the Batavian cavalry thats more within the EB timeframe? It's so hard to find specific unit references for the various Germanic tribes it seems such a waste to not use what little we do have.