Quote Originally Posted by Watchman
You know, I kinda took a look at the EDU and I'll have to say all this talk about the Sweboz being "too weak" compared to the Celts (or conversely the Celts being "too strong") is almost entirely Simply Not True. The damn Swainoz, wet-behind-the-ears pups that they are, are pretty much the equals of the Belgae Batacorii, and the various tribe-specific spear guys and the Frameharjoz are at least the equals if not betters of the Gaeroas and Gaelaiche. The Sahsnotoz have the edge on the Botroas and are the lessers of the Bataroas and Milnaht solely on basis of lack of armour. Heck, the Frankamannoz (the "levy" unit of the Sweboz) can go head on with the lighter representatives of the Celtic warrior class and not do half badly, although I wouldn't expect them to win. Didn't bother comparing the elites, but they ought to be more or less matched as well.

The Celts do have way better access to armour (at least after the reforms start kicking in) though, but then again isn't that what the Sweboz have their clubmen and Wodanawulfaz and Merjoz and whatnots for ?

I'll have to agree that the Ridonharjoz are really statted a bit on the low side IMHO, although that's my opinion on the overhand spear cavalry units in general. No wonder they don't do too spectacularly against the Epos.
For whats it worth, I find the Sweboz to be eminently playable as is. It has been some months since my last Sweboz campaign but, as I recall, I faced little in the way of insurmountable obstacles where battles were concerned. Naturally the later developments in Roman military reform made things difficult. But then again things were supposed to be difficult against the Roman military juggernaut. Against the Celts I feared only the Gesatae and later warrior elites such as the Solduros and Carnutes Cingetos (sp?)...also quite a plausible state of affairs.
Other than the historical accuracy or viability of unit depictions and the small issue of the Ridoharjoz (of whom, even with present stats, I make good use) I think the current balance between the Celts and Germans is well done.

I think the problem lies in the alternative history nature of EB. The represented factions simply do not act in a historically accurate manner...at least it's quite rare when they do. As Watchman stated earlier, many of the inroads made by the Germans were at a much later date that the start of EB and a result of complicated circumstances. It's the circumstances that the AI fails to replicate.

Although it may seem like an odd idea of sorts but I'd actually be in favor of denying the Sweboz early elite troops other than the Herthoz, keep the hundaskapiz as an early inferior shock infantry similar in use to the Merjoz but otherwise limit the Sweboz to light cavalry, tribal militias, and tribal warbands? Force the Germans to take a more defensive position along the rhine while focusing more on economic development and expansion into the east. The first goal for the Germans, from a gameplay perspective, might be the consolidation of the various Gau and control over the Baltic and it's amber trade?

Even if Gallic aggression forces the German faction east this would be ok as long as the baltic region offers enough economic gains for growth. While I still believe the Ridoharjoz shouldn't be inferior to the lightest Gallic cavalry (on which point a partial concensus seems to have been reached) I am against an attempt to make the German faction the equals of Gaul prior to any evidence we have attesting to that. Keep the early Germans fairly simple.
Save the upgrades, nobles, and proper elite troops for the 140'ish b.c.e. reform date before giving the Sweboz a viable means of facing Gaul and Rome head to head?

What do you think?

ps.

Blitzkrieg80,

A fascinating read regarding the Herunauta, i'm sadly not yet in possession of a proper book on the subject but am in great anticipation of its arrival soon. Also I'm in agreement regarding the Batavians...mostly. I agree that their mentioning in the classical sources dates too late for EB. I'd hoped that there's be information about the cavalry tradition of the Batavians going back far enought to be of use. There is a particular mask