Sweboz (Germans) slightly underpowered

[Frostwulf]

Perhaps the Germans do deserve something of a status boost. The question for me though is what would the standard equipment of Ariovistus's army have been?

In 14 years of campaign in rich Gaul? I'd say very well equipped.

They definitely wouldn't have fought in the what I'd describe as the bare minium kit of a Germanic warrior, that being a shield, possibly with a shield boss and a few frame.

I'd imagine lots of superior Celtic equipment being used. Longswords, Longer shields, various types of helmets and undoubtably a few with chainmail.

A lot of the higher chieftains would undoubtedly have Celtic equipment, by importing, stealing or having been gifted it by their employers. We know the Germans already copied things like spearheads and shields, so I figured they'd be armed just like a well equipped Celtic army.

According to John Warry "Warfare in the Classical World" on pg.161 he list's number of soldiers as:
Caesar: 21000 Legionaries plus Gallic horse (4000) and other auxiliaries
Ariovistus: Germans tribal levy en masse (from community of 120,000); includes 6000 horse-men with 6000 footmen and 16000 light infantry.

He doesn't go into detail of the troop make up other then making the distinction of light infantry. It seems of the 22000 troops, 6000 of them had decent armor. That of course is pure speculation on my part. But it is also worth noting of the arms and armor of the TCA, roughly 50 years earlier.

On a bit different topic, you know how the current Hundaskaspiz are a placeholder ? I've just been thinking if there were not a better placeholder solution possible, to represent them being the pick of the common warriors of the tribe rather than the nobility and their role as "point man" shock troops. Would it seem like a feasible idea to make them use some suitable "commoner" skin/model (say, Frameharjoz, as those are basically the standard "universal troopers" of the Sweboz), amp the stats, lower the base size to something like 30, muck around with the prices, and slap the "command" trait on the unit - essentially making them a Germanic version of the Casse "hero" units, what now far more humbly armed ?

Model space/skin usage determines much of how the future units will look, but as it turns out i have decided on the Hundafulkan using the same model as the Baldrōz ("Bold ones" or "Heroes"). Lightly armored, spear being their primary weapon... although i'm not quite sure if i want to use an axe or sword for secondary, both being problematic for them.

I think both of you guys have good idea's on this. There are things I would still like to see for the Germans though.
Cavalry:I would like to see a heavy cavalry unit, not well armored but high attack and a high skilled defense. Perhaps a noble cavalry along the same lines as the heavy cavalry with better armor.

Infantry: An increase to morale to most of the units. Perhaps an increase in attack and defense to some of the units?

I did a few tests with some units and some things that surprised me. The Heruskoz lost to the Batacorii every time. According to the stats on the cards this shouldn't have happened. The Laecha (Gaul) were also prone to losing against Frameharjoz. Is there another way to gauge a units stats other then doing tests unit vs unit or the cards? The cards are not portraying the stats as I would expect them to. I also don't have enough time to test unit vs unit.
I also tests on Cohors Imperatoria vs Solduros and both were of equal soldiers, not units (300men each). The Solduros won. If I went unit on unit the Cohors won.
I don't agree with the idea that its ok to have Celt elite units stronger then their Roman counter parts. The excuse that they have fewer in number, have less soldiers,cost more and are rare still doesn't matter. I still believe the Soduros,Rycalwre and etc. should have slight reductions and bring them at best on par with the Cohors Reformata. Reduce the Cost of these Celt elite units and make them more available.
One other idea, increase the morale for the Batacorii. The Belgae where known for their bravery and according to the cards they are average Celt morale. Also increase the morale of the veteran Cohors Evocata should be increased.
Again Im going by the cards on morale so I very well could be wrong on how this works.

[Watchman]

Personally, I prefer looking up the stats in export_descr_units.txt. Pretty much the only thing you don't see there is the units' movement speeds (which are governed by what skeletons they've been defined to use in descr_model_battle.txt).

[blitzkrieg80]

rather than messing with stats that already seem to work, I think it would be cool to have more regionals, such as a Cimbri, or Rugi variants... The Wōdanezharīz is a Harii regional now of the Lugii, so no worries for anyone missing the berserkr-like guy, but he's been reconceptualized as a cultist of Wodan, no wolf about him, just good ole ecstatic "inspiration" of the god of change (wind/travel) himself.

[Frostwulf]

Thanks for the info. Watchman.

rather than messing with stats that already seem to work, I think it would be cool to have more regionals, such as a Cimbri, or Rugi variants... The Wōdanezharīz is a Harii regional now of the Lugii, so no worries for anyone missing the berserkr-like guy, but he's been reconceptualized as a cultist of Wodan, no wolf about him, just good ole ecstatic "inspiration" of the god of change (wind/travel) himself.

The only reason I would like to see the stat changes is that I think they are off historically. I really like the idea of regionals, there are many things that can be done with that. Also is there still better cavalry in the works?

[Watchman]

Off and off. I would think that stats that have the Germanic tribal levies the virtual equals of the Celtic warrior class (bar the effects of armour later) were downright generous.

[Frostwulf]

Off and off. I would think that stats that have the Germanic tribal levies the virtual equals of the Celtic warrior class (bar the effects of armour later) were downright generous.

The Germans should be superior to them. From the post Viking put down, De Bello Gallico. say's that the Germans defeated their nobility(elites),cavalry etc. not to mention this:

Throughout the Gallic campaigns German warriors consistently defeated their Gallic counterparts, each success adding to their fierce reputation. Pg.274

[Redmeth]

Throughout the Gallic campaigns German warriors consistently defeated their Gallic counterparts, each success adding to their fierce reputation. Pg.274

I don't mean to be rude but that's like the 100th time you quoted that line, we got the picture, don't you also have more sources?

And also, Caesar's campaigns are just a moment in time when perhaps the Celts were in decline and the German warriors that rode with Caesar were veterans of elite status and probably very well equipped from all the raiding, can you generalize this to every single German tribesman that picked up a weapon?