The Pet Peeve thread

[alpaca]

Nah, it's been around and mentioned in several places already. And if FactionHeir hasn't spammed the port bug all over the bug thread, I'll eat my hat. No offense intended, it's just what he does. I've also known about it for a long-o time-o, and am certain I read it on the Org. Try somebody else's financial guide, that's prolly where I saw it

Ah well I'm not paying that close attention to the citadel. Good to hear I'm not the only one who's mad enough to have noticed it.

[andrewt]

I've noticed it, too but didn't really care that much about it. I just changed my build order.

[Didz]

I must admit that I wasn't aware of Sir Henry Percy's revolt, and I'm sure there were other similar incidents. But those are, to some extent, simulated by the game - I think we've all witnessed a captain led full stack army going brigand.

Based purely upon my knowledge of English history I would say that the vast majority of revolts in English medieval history were led by nobility. In fact the only one that spring to mind that wasn’t was the Peasant Revolt of 1381.

However, we need to make a careful distinction here between revolts triggered by a vassal lord going rogue, which as you rightly say are simulated in the game by stacks going rebel and those which are privately financed by rivals, dispossessed nobility and exiles.

England in particular had an almost unlimited supply of such nobility willing to have a go whenever they thought the opportunity for power had presented itself.

Amonst these were Owain Glyndŵr. The last Welsh Prince of Wales who led the Welsh revolt in 1401, Henry Bolingbroke later Henry IV who led a successful revolt in 1399 which overthrew Richard II and made him King.

Then of course we have all the Irish and Scottish nobles who periodically launched rebellions to reclaim their lands, Charles Edward Stuart being the most well known, along with William Wallace , and my own ancestor the Anglo-Saxon nobility who loat their lands when William dispossed them in favour of his Norman friends.

What you say is true, but I consider a city revolt to start not within a city itself, but from villages that surround it. Dissatisfied peasants band up together and march to the city/castle. So, basically, when a city revolt occurs, I would expect a siege battle. That would add to realism, because how realistic is the fact that highly trained elite army that fought it's way across half of Europe and stormed an enemy castle, suddenly finds itself driven out of it by a bunch of peasants?

Personally, I see a definitely distinction between a peasant revolt that starts in the countryside and is thus represented by the sudden appearance of an army of peasants, and a revolt in a city which is triggered by poor city management.

However, whichever way one visualises the start of the revolt the idea that it would lead to peasants besieging castles and cities is unlikely.

In every historical instance of revolts with limited military backing, and in particular the Peasant Revolt of 1381 and the Welsh Revolt of 1401, castles were taken by deception rather than overt attack. Therefore, the idea that one can rest safe in the belief that an army of peasants are going to co-operate by throwing themselves like lemmings at your castle walls cannot be justified by historical precedent.

For example: Owain Glyndŵr’s rebels succeeded in capturing ever English castle in Wales, except Harlech, without entering into a formal asault on any of them. In one instance they simply walked up to the castle claiming to be a bunch of carpenters come to do some repairs and then overpowered the gate keepers. In another they actually enrolled in the castle garrison as Longbowmen and then overpowered the English from the inside.

Likewise the Peasant Revolt not only gained access to the City of London but into the Royal Keep of the Tower of London without firing a single shot in anger, by merely persuading the guards to let them in.

I think we must therefore assume that our peasants in MTW2 are at least as ‘sneaky’ and imaginative as their historical counterparts and that a city revolt would quite literally take the entire city and its garrison with it.

[Kobal2fr]

In France there were a number of very bloody peasant revolts, especially during the Hundred Years War when living conditions were at their lowest. Check out the word "Jacquerie" on wikipedia to get an idea of the...creativity of desperate peasants. Yurk.

(BTW, the word "Jacquerie", while originally being the name given to that particular revolt, has entered the French lexicon to mean any peasant uprising against their nobles, with implications of savagery, atrocities and rabid bloodthirst. Which leads me to surmise said revolts were common enough that they'd need their own word)