Belgian Election thread !

[doc_bean]

Thou are completly wrong. They control education, a verry important thing. Also part of our social help is done by the communities. Also quite a few other stuff.

Does that mean Brussels has it's own community govenment too ? Because education norms are different in Brussels, Wallony and landers, especially when it comes to languages.

*sigh* see, I don't even understand our system...

Why, naturally. How else to rule the vast area of Belgium, 20% larger than Vermont, than through a triple federalised system? And you've got your provincial, local and European elections too. Please tell me voting is obligatory for all of them.

Of course it is. Though they're normally spread out so we only have to go and vote once every two years.

And then there's the Bruxelles-Hal-Vilvorde arrondissement problem, which, by verdict of the Belgian constitutional court, in fact renders the current election unconstitutional.

It's become more of a non-issue these days, which hows how little backbone us Flemish really have, I guess. At least in france there would have been a nice riot.

Yves 'les francophones ne sont pas en état intellectuel d'apprendre le néerlandais' Leterme? What about his goat?
Please tell me he was caught doing you-know-what with his goat!?

Nope sorry. He is somewhat misquoted I believe, it was in a reaction to something and he started by saying "Apparently..." I believe it was about the situation in Henegouwen where on the french side of the language border there's a huge unemployment problem and on the Dutch side there's a shortage of workers. But I don't remember exactly.

[Sardo]

Does that mean Brussels has it's own community govenment too ? Because education norms are different in Brussels, Wallony and landers, especially when it comes to languages.

What I've been taught is that the French Community governs francophone affairs in Brussels, and the Flemish Community governs the Dutch ones.

Adding to the fun is the fact that the competencies of the Flemish Community are in fact unified with those of the Flemish Region, which is why there's only (!) one Flemish Parliament (though Flemish parliamentarians from the Brussels-Capital Region cannot vote on competencies of the Flemish Region). As opposed to the rest of the country which has two Regions (Brussels-Capital and Walloon Region) and two Communities (French and German).

See Wikipedia for additional information and subsequent mind-warping. I guess we just love having tons of government officials to support with our tax money.

As to the election, I have no clue as to who should get my vote. I really haven't been keeping up to date with the whole politics thing and as such I think the whole compulsory voting thing stinks. If people are clueless about politics (as I so often am), they should not vote. Maybe I'll educate myself some more next time.

[doc_bean]

What I've been taught is that the French Community governs francophone affairs in Brussels, and the Flemish Community governs the Dutch ones.

Adding to the fun is the fact that the competencies of the Flemish Community are in fact unified with those of the Flemish Region, which is why there's only (!) one Flemish Parliament (though Flemish parliamentarians from the Brussels-Capital Region cannot vote on competencies of the Flemish Region). As opposed to the rest of the country which has two Regions (Brussels-Capital and Walloon Region) and two Communities (French and German).

See Wikipedia for additional information and subsequent mind-warping. I guess we just love having tons of government officials to support with our tax money.

As to the election, I have no clue as to who should get my vote. I really haven't been keeping up to date with the whole politics thing and as such I think the whole compulsory voting thing stinks. If people are clueless about politics (as I so often am), they should not vote. Maybe I'll educate myself some more next time.

Don't make it Green, VB, or socialist and I'm happy

[Moros]

No brussels doesn't have it's own community government. there are only 3 communities the French speaking com., the German speaking com and the dutch (but this is a part of the flemish parlemant, they said that one parliamant was enough. Only a few members are different if it's about the Dutch community or about the territorial flanders.)

EDit: gimme: Sp.a-Groen!-Ecolo-VLD-CDH-MR coalition. + CD&V if the previous wasn't enough. No PS and no VB though

[doc_bean]

No brussels doesn't have it's own community government. there are only 3 communities the French speaking com., the German speaking com and the dutch (but this is a part of the flemish parlemant, they said that one parliamant was enough. Only a few members are different if it's about the Dutch community or about the territorial flanders.)

Yeah, I checked again. It's sad that I actually have to check to know such things.

EDit: gimme: Sp.a-Groen!-Ecolo-VLD-CDH-MR coalition. + CD&V if the previous wasn't enough. No PS and no VB though

Dear lord, "Groen!" ???? Well, you're still young...

[Moros]

Yeah, I checked again. It's sad that I actually have to check to know such things.




Dear lord, "Groen!" ???? Well, you're still young...

Perhaps I'm young but at least I know how my country works better than you.

May I ask, if you make your opinion by logical thining or more by listening to the media?

[doc_bean]

Perhaps I'm young but at least I know how my country works better than you.

May I ask, if you make your opinion by logical thining or more by listening to the media?

I try to apply logical thinking, but I don't always have the time to really read all of everyone's program, so i have to base myself on comments made by politicians and the debates I can follow.

I don't really pay all that much attention to how the federal system really works since
1) no "ordinary" citizen really knows
2) perhaps with the exception of this election, the parties tend to ignore the federal division of authority when campaigning. They're already talking about having the elections on the same date again so the average citizen will never know what they are voting for where. Our entire Federal system is an absolute mess.

But seriously, since when is "Groen!" been logical ?

Is it about the nuclear thing or about something else ? because as an engineer, surrounded by other engineers, i haven't met anyone with knowledge on the subject who believes it's feasible to close them in 2015 without resorting to:

a) more coal and gas power stations
b) buying our power from France, which is heavily investing in nuclear power, so that wouldn't change a thing for the environment on a European scale.

Seriously, I'm curious.

[Conradus]

EDit: gimme: Sp.a-Groen!-Ecolo-VLD-CDH-MR coalition. + CD&V if the previous wasn't enough. No PS and no VB though

You'd make a government without the largest French party, and the two largest Flemish?

As for the nuclear energy topic. I find Groen!'s and SPa's positions in this unrealistic. A senator of SPa came to our school for a debate, but she had no clue what they were planning on using in stead of nuclear power plants. In the end she even went far enough to state that we should increase our number of oil, coal and gasplants.

[Moros]

Most of these guys don't have a clue on most things, so do we! That's why you have specialists in every party. For example, Yves Letermes can hardly really critisize the 'justitie" stuff (except for th obvious) and could not lead it either. That's when in the case of CD&V Tony van Parijs steps in. Just to give an example. And ofcourse you always have some people who are less eloquent and intelligent in every party.

Airspace, environment, energy and public transportation should be federal without question. I'm not sure one of them is (energy is partially split i believe, public transport is a very complex issue with semi-privatized companies and all). Social security should definitely remain federal, I'd say employment too.

exactly!

You'd make a government without the largest French party, and the two largest Flemish?

Yup, won't go but that'd the ideal. But a coalition without PS but with the CD&V is absolutely possible. the PS just really needs to reflect on themselves and hopefully like doc says get a new generation of more realistic party members. The only reason I don't like the CD&V in is mostly the NVA. I don't have this issue this much with Spirit as they seem more realistic and the SPa doesn't seem to listen that much to them as the CD&V does with the NVA.

CD&V, I just don't thrust, besides, they don't have anyone besides Leterme who seems like a decent politician.

Personally I don't think Leterme's that good really. I think there are a few CD&V'ers who are better. Leterme just plays the media to well. Have you seen the debate last saturday (or was it sunday?), he almost never responded to the questions he was asked. He can talk a lot and say some numbers, but real arguments that actually make sense. Only a few. The reasons he stands out is that he's one of the few politicians left who can talk. Only a few others still are good speakers, like the top of the VB. I can't say much good about them but if there's one thing; Filip and Frank and a few others can talk.

Nuclear energy is a tough one, because you can always claim they can decide to keep 'em open a few years longer in 2015, so voting for or against a party based on that shouldn't be critical. I just find the SP's stand highly 'suspicious', they provide no decent solution or alternative. I can respect Groen! because they tell it like it is "we all need to use far less energy !", they're idealists and extremist, but at least they're honest.

I'm for the abolition of Nuclear power (except for future versions that are really clean, nuclear fusion for example (if that ever succeeds))
And I'm for trying to get people to use less energy and stuff.
I mean every day countless of ships and trains transport nuclear waist. In the seas near Russia is already tons and tons of nuclear waist in barrels in the sea. Oilships sink and leak oil regulary, if the same things start to happen with nuclear waist. I don't know how many ships transport waist to Japan.

Think about this how long is it going to take before thos barrels in the sea start leaking, or a few boats sink? Think about this: 1kg of plutonium if spread around enough can make all life on this earth, the way we know it, vanish.
And yearly we transport so many tons of nuclear waist. We can only wait for a new Tsjernobil like thing to happen. You can say about new technology this and that. They said the same 30 years ago.

Also as someone who volunteers in the nature wildlife rescue center in Opglabeek (Sil & co), I hear a lot of things you normally don't hear about, about our nature in Flanders. Groen! should be ruling Belgium and stuff, but it should be something that stays and remains to help us think about it.

[Conradus]

Yup, won't go but that'd the ideal. But a coalition without PS but with the CD&V is absolutely possible. the PS just really needs to reflect on themselves and hopefully like doc says get a new generation of more realistic party members. The only reason I don't like the CD&V in is mostly the NVA. I don't have this issue this much with Spirit as they seem more realistic and the SPa doesn't seem to listen that much to them as the CD&V does with the NVA.

I agree on the PS-part, they really need an 'opositionbath', but the chance they will is zero. If SPa goes into a goverment, so goes the PS. I don't have the feeling the CD&V listens to NVA. They clearly showed them who's in charge when Dedecker tried to join. It's obviously they don't need NVA, but NVA does need them. And Spirit, again I never saw the use of this party. Van Bellinghen came to debate, but all he could tell us is that they didn't really have a strategy and were more of a 'zweeppartij'.

Personally I don't think Leterme's that good really. I think there are a few CD&V'ers who are better. Leterme just plays the media to well. Have you seen the debate last saturday (or was it sunday?), he almost never responded to the questions he was asked. He can talk a lot and say some numbers, but real arguments that actually make sense. Only a few. The reasons he stands out is that he's one of the few politicians left who can talk. Only a few others still are good speakers, like the top of the VB. I can't say much good about them but if there's one thing; Filip and Frank and a few others can talk.

I consider Leterme and some other CD&V-politicians among the best we have atm. Peeters, De Crem, Van Deurzen en Van Parys are capable politicians imo. As for the other parties, they have some good politicians, but sometimes I wonder how some got their ministerposts?
And VB's lucky they have 3 real politicians (DW, Annemans, Van Hecke)

I'm for the abolition of Nuclear power (except for future versions that are really clean, nuclear fusion for example (if that ever succeeds))
And I'm for trying to get people to use less energy and stuff.
I mean every day countless of ships and trains transport nuclear waist. In the seas near Russia is already tons and tons of nuclear waist in barrels in the sea. Oilships sink and leak oil regulary, if the same things start to happen with nuclear waist. I don't know how many ships transport waist to Japan.

I have no objection to clean nuclear energy, but fusion's going to take quite a while, and we don't have any alternatives at the moment. Everything Groen! or SPa suggest , must end by importing expensive nuclear power from France, or building/using more fossile fuels. And those are more polluting to the world than the small amount of nuclear waste that we can safely store or with new reactors even use.

Groen! should be ruling Belgium and stuff, but it should be something that stays and remains to help us think about it.

I've always found it a bad idea for idealists to run a country. They might have a vision, but lack the capability to make it work.