Belgian Election thread !

[Sardo]

Does that mean Brussels has it's own community govenment too ? Because education norms are different in Brussels, Wallony and landers, especially when it comes to languages.

What I've been taught is that the French Community governs francophone affairs in Brussels, and the Flemish Community governs the Dutch ones.

Adding to the fun is the fact that the competencies of the Flemish Community are in fact unified with those of the Flemish Region, which is why there's only (!) one Flemish Parliament (though Flemish parliamentarians from the Brussels-Capital Region cannot vote on competencies of the Flemish Region). As opposed to the rest of the country which has two Regions (Brussels-Capital and Walloon Region) and two Communities (French and German).

See Wikipedia for additional information and subsequent mind-warping. I guess we just love having tons of government officials to support with our tax money.

As to the election, I have no clue as to who should get my vote. I really haven't been keeping up to date with the whole politics thing and as such I think the whole compulsory voting thing stinks. If people are clueless about politics (as I so often am), they should not vote. Maybe I'll educate myself some more next time.

[doc_bean]

What I've been taught is that the French Community governs francophone affairs in Brussels, and the Flemish Community governs the Dutch ones.

Adding to the fun is the fact that the competencies of the Flemish Community are in fact unified with those of the Flemish Region, which is why there's only (!) one Flemish Parliament (though Flemish parliamentarians from the Brussels-Capital Region cannot vote on competencies of the Flemish Region). As opposed to the rest of the country which has two Regions (Brussels-Capital and Walloon Region) and two Communities (French and German).

See Wikipedia for additional information and subsequent mind-warping. I guess we just love having tons of government officials to support with our tax money.

As to the election, I have no clue as to who should get my vote. I really haven't been keeping up to date with the whole politics thing and as such I think the whole compulsory voting thing stinks. If people are clueless about politics (as I so often am), they should not vote. Maybe I'll educate myself some more next time.

Don't make it Green, VB, or socialist and I'm happy

[Moros]

No brussels doesn't have it's own community government. there are only 3 communities the French speaking com., the German speaking com and the dutch (but this is a part of the flemish parlemant, they said that one parliamant was enough. Only a few members are different if it's about the Dutch community or about the territorial flanders.)

EDit: gimme: Sp.a-Groen!-Ecolo-VLD-CDH-MR coalition. + CD&V if the previous wasn't enough. No PS and no VB though

[doc_bean]

No brussels doesn't have it's own community government. there are only 3 communities the French speaking com., the German speaking com and the dutch (but this is a part of the flemish parlemant, they said that one parliamant was enough. Only a few members are different if it's about the Dutch community or about the territorial flanders.)

Yeah, I checked again. It's sad that I actually have to check to know such things.

EDit: gimme: Sp.a-Groen!-Ecolo-VLD-CDH-MR coalition. + CD&V if the previous wasn't enough. No PS and no VB though

Dear lord, "Groen!" ???? Well, you're still young...

[Moros]

Yeah, I checked again. It's sad that I actually have to check to know such things.




Dear lord, "Groen!" ???? Well, you're still young...

Perhaps I'm young but at least I know how my country works better than you.

May I ask, if you make your opinion by logical thining or more by listening to the media?

[doc_bean]

Perhaps I'm young but at least I know how my country works better than you.

May I ask, if you make your opinion by logical thining or more by listening to the media?

I try to apply logical thinking, but I don't always have the time to really read all of everyone's program, so i have to base myself on comments made by politicians and the debates I can follow.

I don't really pay all that much attention to how the federal system really works since
1) no "ordinary" citizen really knows
2) perhaps with the exception of this election, the parties tend to ignore the federal division of authority when campaigning. They're already talking about having the elections on the same date again so the average citizen will never know what they are voting for where. Our entire Federal system is an absolute mess.

But seriously, since when is "Groen!" been logical ?

Is it about the nuclear thing or about something else ? because as an engineer, surrounded by other engineers, i haven't met anyone with knowledge on the subject who believes it's feasible to close them in 2015 without resorting to:

a) more coal and gas power stations
b) buying our power from France, which is heavily investing in nuclear power, so that wouldn't change a thing for the environment on a European scale.

Seriously, I'm curious.

[Moros]

I hope one thing doesn't make your complete view of politics.

I'm extraordinary!

Nah, noone indeed really knows. If they reform the state like they're all bragging about, than just make it comprehensable for god's sake. And don't just only give Flanders more "bevoegdheden", some things are better when federal. (Zaventem for example)

[doc_bean]

I hope one thing doesn't make your complete view of politics.

Of course not, but part of the problem with our current political system is that parties have a 'program' you have to vote for, usually every platform has at least a few decent points and a few bad ones, but you have to prioritize.

Nuclear energy is a tough one, because you can always claim they can decide to keep 'em open a few years longer in 2015, so voting for or against a party based on that shouldn't be critical. I just find the SP's stand highly 'suspicious', they provide no decent solution or alternative. I can respect Groen! because they tell it like it is "we all need to use far less energy !", they're idealists and extremist, but at least they're honest.

I mostly like the 'liberal' ideology since I don't believ ein the hand-out economy they propose. I prefer tax cuts since they eliminate the overhead costs of the government redistributing the wealth. I also now far too much supposedly poor people getting benefits because they fall into some category and really poor people getting nothing because they don't qualify (and i'm not talking about immigrants here, that's a whole different issue). hand-uots based on criteria create a new class of the poor, those who jusr don't qualify and breed a class of people who depend on hand-outs, who won't get a job because that will cost them money. And I don't blame them.

I really liked Vivant's idea (not the collection of taxes, mind you, but their hand out policy), but they seem to have dissapeared now.

CD&V, I just don't thrust, besides, they don't have anyone besides Leterme who seems like a decent politician.
Groen! means well, but they lack a vision, a plan. You can see waht has happend with the 'night flights', they can't seem to see society as a system.

I'm extraordinary!

Nah, noone indeed really knows. If they reform the state like they're all bragging about, than just make it comprehensable for god's sake. And don't just only give Flanders more "bevoegdheden", some things are better when federal. (Zaventem for example)

Airspace, environment, energy and public transportation should be federal without question. I'm not sure one of them is (energy is partially split i believe, public transport is a very complex issue with semi-privatized companies and all). Social security should definitely remain federal, I'd say employment too.

Frankly, I have a hard time seeing anything that *has* to be split. It's really besides the issue, the issue is the billions Flanders gives to Wallony each year, something decisive has to be done about that, with or without splitting the country up. Nothing N-VA proposes really helps that afaik...

[Conradus]

EDit: gimme: Sp.a-Groen!-Ecolo-VLD-CDH-MR coalition. + CD&V if the previous wasn't enough. No PS and no VB though

You'd make a government without the largest French party, and the two largest Flemish?

As for the nuclear energy topic. I find Groen!'s and SPa's positions in this unrealistic. A senator of SPa came to our school for a debate, but she had no clue what they were planning on using in stead of nuclear power plants. In the end she even went far enough to state that we should increase our number of oil, coal and gasplants.

[Moros]

Most of these guys don't have a clue on most things, so do we! That's why you have specialists in every party. For example, Yves Letermes can hardly really critisize the 'justitie" stuff (except for th obvious) and could not lead it either. That's when in the case of CD&V Tony van Parijs steps in. Just to give an example. And ofcourse you always have some people who are less eloquent and intelligent in every party.

Airspace, environment, energy and public transportation should be federal without question. I'm not sure one of them is (energy is partially split i believe, public transport is a very complex issue with semi-privatized companies and all). Social security should definitely remain federal, I'd say employment too.

exactly!

You'd make a government without the largest French party, and the two largest Flemish?

Yup, won't go but that'd the ideal. But a coalition without PS but with the CD&V is absolutely possible. the PS just really needs to reflect on themselves and hopefully like doc says get a new generation of more realistic party members. The only reason I don't like the CD&V in is mostly the NVA. I don't have this issue this much with Spirit as they seem more realistic and the SPa doesn't seem to listen that much to them as the CD&V does with the NVA.

CD&V, I just don't thrust, besides, they don't have anyone besides Leterme who seems like a decent politician.

Personally I don't think Leterme's that good really. I think there are a few CD&V'ers who are better. Leterme just plays the media to well. Have you seen the debate last saturday (or was it sunday?), he almost never responded to the questions he was asked. He can talk a lot and say some numbers, but real arguments that actually make sense. Only a few. The reasons he stands out is that he's one of the few politicians left who can talk. Only a few others still are good speakers, like the top of the VB. I can't say much good about them but if there's one thing; Filip and Frank and a few others can talk.

Nuclear energy is a tough one, because you can always claim they can decide to keep 'em open a few years longer in 2015, so voting for or against a party based on that shouldn't be critical. I just find the SP's stand highly 'suspicious', they provide no decent solution or alternative. I can respect Groen! because they tell it like it is "we all need to use far less energy !", they're idealists and extremist, but at least they're honest.

I'm for the abolition of Nuclear power (except for future versions that are really clean, nuclear fusion for example (if that ever succeeds))
And I'm for trying to get people to use less energy and stuff.
I mean every day countless of ships and trains transport nuclear waist. In the seas near Russia is already tons and tons of nuclear waist in barrels in the sea. Oilships sink and leak oil regulary, if the same things start to happen with nuclear waist. I don't know how many ships transport waist to Japan.

Think about this how long is it going to take before thos barrels in the sea start leaking, or a few boats sink? Think about this: 1kg of plutonium if spread around enough can make all life on this earth, the way we know it, vanish.
And yearly we transport so many tons of nuclear waist. We can only wait for a new Tsjernobil like thing to happen. You can say about new technology this and that. They said the same 30 years ago.

Also as someone who volunteers in the nature wildlife rescue center in Opglabeek (Sil & co), I hear a lot of things you normally don't hear about, about our nature in Flanders. Groen! should be ruling Belgium and stuff, but it should be something that stays and remains to help us think about it.

[Conradus]

Yup, won't go but that'd the ideal. But a coalition without PS but with the CD&V is absolutely possible. the PS just really needs to reflect on themselves and hopefully like doc says get a new generation of more realistic party members. The only reason I don't like the CD&V in is mostly the NVA. I don't have this issue this much with Spirit as they seem more realistic and the SPa doesn't seem to listen that much to them as the CD&V does with the NVA.

I agree on the PS-part, they really need an 'opositionbath', but the chance they will is zero. If SPa goes into a goverment, so goes the PS. I don't have the feeling the CD&V listens to NVA. They clearly showed them who's in charge when Dedecker tried to join. It's obviously they don't need NVA, but NVA does need them. And Spirit, again I never saw the use of this party. Van Bellinghen came to debate, but all he could tell us is that they didn't really have a strategy and were more of a 'zweeppartij'.

Personally I don't think Leterme's that good really. I think there are a few CD&V'ers who are better. Leterme just plays the media to well. Have you seen the debate last saturday (or was it sunday?), he almost never responded to the questions he was asked. He can talk a lot and say some numbers, but real arguments that actually make sense. Only a few. The reasons he stands out is that he's one of the few politicians left who can talk. Only a few others still are good speakers, like the top of the VB. I can't say much good about them but if there's one thing; Filip and Frank and a few others can talk.

I consider Leterme and some other CD&V-politicians among the best we have atm. Peeters, De Crem, Van Deurzen en Van Parys are capable politicians imo. As for the other parties, they have some good politicians, but sometimes I wonder how some got their ministerposts?
And VB's lucky they have 3 real politicians (DW, Annemans, Van Hecke)

I'm for the abolition of Nuclear power (except for future versions that are really clean, nuclear fusion for example (if that ever succeeds))
And I'm for trying to get people to use less energy and stuff.
I mean every day countless of ships and trains transport nuclear waist. In the seas near Russia is already tons and tons of nuclear waist in barrels in the sea. Oilships sink and leak oil regulary, if the same things start to happen with nuclear waist. I don't know how many ships transport waist to Japan.

I have no objection to clean nuclear energy, but fusion's going to take quite a while, and we don't have any alternatives at the moment. Everything Groen! or SPa suggest , must end by importing expensive nuclear power from France, or building/using more fossile fuels. And those are more polluting to the world than the small amount of nuclear waste that we can safely store or with new reactors even use.

Groen! should be ruling Belgium and stuff, but it should be something that stays and remains to help us think about it.

I've always found it a bad idea for idealists to run a country. They might have a vision, but lack the capability to make it work.

[doc_bean]

Note: i typed this out a few hours ago, but had a major system crash before I could post it. Luckily I saved it.

Personally I don't think Leterme's that good really. I think there are a few CD&V'ers who are better. Leterme just plays the media to well. Have you seen the debate last saturday (or was it sunday?), he almost never responded to the questions he was asked. He can talk a lot and say some numbers, but real arguments that actually make sense. Only a few. The reasons he stands out is that he's one of the few politicians left who can talk. Only a few others still are good speakers, like the top of the VB. I can't say much good about them but if there's one thing; Filip and Frank and a few others can talk.

The VRT debate ? I thought he was the weakest one there.

I'm not a big fan of his, but he is the face of CD&V now, luke Dehaene was in his day, I'm sure he'd make a decent prime minister, but I now virtually nothing about the other people in the party (well except Inge Vervotte who i seriously dislike).

I'm for the abolition of Nuclear power (except for future versions that are really clean, nuclear fusion for example (if that ever succeeds))

Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro-nuclear power. There just is no viable alternative at the moment.

And I'm for trying to get people to use less energy and stuff.

Groen! would have us use about 1/5 of the enegy we are using now by 2015, considering the efficiency the companies are already running at, I don't belief that's possible.
One thing I do have to hand to Groen! is that they also talk about the responsibility of the common man, and not just blame everything on the industry, but even if we halve our energy consumption, we'd still be running short, considering we'd want to cut back on fossile fuels too.

Green power is a wonderful thing, but besides capacity I haven't heard anyone adressing the other big problem: it's not controllable. You can make some when it's sunny, or when the wind blows, or when the tide rises, but you want ot use it all through the day (and a lot at certain times), so you'd need a decent way to store it, even if the production (on year basis) was sufficient.
I haven't heard anyone talking about building another pumping station, which is certainly what we'd need, I don't even know if that's a realistic possibility.

I'd support an end to our nuclear usage if someone gave a decent alternative.

Right now i'm mostly in favour of VLD's position, which is developping cleaner, more efficient power plants. CD&V just wants to use the same old polluting plants until god knows when, and that's exactly what will happen with SPA too, since they'll have no alternative by 2015.

I mean every day countless of ships and trains transport nuclear waist.

Now you're talking about global problems and not about national issues. We dump everything in Mol afaik (I might be wrong though).

Also as someone who volunteers in the nature wildlife rescue center in Opglabeek (Sil & co), I hear a lot of things you normally don't hear about, about our nature in Flanders. Groen! should be ruling Belgium and stuff, but it should be something that stays and remains to help us think about it.

It's a difficult balance in our overcrowed country. A friend of mine works for the farmers union (Boerenbond) and he often has some very depressing stories to tell about farmers forced to quit their jobs without compensation because someone decided to build a nature reserve near them (he represent Limburg farmers). They're forced out of business without any compensation and the government talks about 'the greater good'.

A green party definately has its place in society, a far right party like VB does to, but i want niether of them participating in the government.

[Don Corleone]

Sorry, I'm afraid I know <0 about Belgian politics, other than the requisite "America is Satan" stance all your parties must take.

But I heard an interesting tidbit on NPR that made me check-in on this thread. What's up with your Crown Prince stealing furniture from your National Archives? (Well, not returning what he had borrowed). It was strongly hinted this was political in motive (embarrassing your royalist-leaning parties?)

[doc_bean]

Sorry, I'm afraid I know <0 about Belgian politics, other than the requisite "America is Satan" stance all your parties must take.

We're not Iran you know. One party complained about the threat of the use of the English language to our 'culture' and there was a little talk about Iraq and who had wanted us involved (no one really). Otherwise, the US wasn't an issue in our election.

For the record, we're also in Afghanistan, so we don't oppose everything you guys do.

But I heard an interesting tidbit on NPR that made me check-in on this thread. What's up with your Crown Prince stealing furniture from your National Archives? (Well, not returning what he had borrowed). It was strongly hinted this was political in motive

They're supposedly property of the Flemish government since they belonged to a house they were/are responsible for. Now they want to turn the house into a museum and have asked for the furniture back. The court doesn't respond.

There's some debate if they really are property of the Flemish government, but since they're willing to take it to court, I'd say they're probably right.

(embarrassing your royalist-leaning parties?)

From a political view, the royalists are almost always the Walloons, since we can't vote for their parties and they can't vote for ours (the little exceptions I won't go into...) doing this holds no electoral gain imo.

There's a pretty strong anti-royalist movement in Flanders (lead politically by the tiny party N-VA, who will take the fall if things get too complicated). Our royals do suck in a bad way. Our king doesn't do anything anymore, he lets the crown prince handle all the foreign missions while he's sunbathing in the Med. The crown prince is just an idiot who can't even speak Dutch (which is the native language of 60% of his future subjects...) and manages to continuously mess up those trade missions. He also doesn't know his place in politics, he's supposed to remain neutral, but he doesn't. We all fear the day his father dies...

EDIT: just voted, less than half an hour from my door to my door, mandatory elections do have their benefits !

[Moros]

[QUOTE=Conradus]I agree on the PS-part, they really need an 'opositionbath', but the chance they will is zero. If SPa goes into a goverment, so goes the PS. I don't have the feeling the CD&V listens to NVA. They clearly showed them who's in charge when Dedecker tried to join. It's obviously they don't need NVA, but NVA does need them. And Spirit, again I never saw the use of this party. Van Bellinghen came to debate, but all he could tell us is that they didn't really have a strategy and were more of a 'zweeppartij'.[QUOTE]
Oh please.

I consider Leterme and some other CD&V-politicians among the best we have atm. Peeters, De Crem, Van Deurzen en Van Parys are capable politicians imo. As for the other parties, they have some good politicians, but sometimes I wonder how some got their ministerposts?
And VB's lucky they have 3 real politicians (DW, Annemans, Van Hecke)

Leterme just presents himself well, that's it. He can't even awsner a bloody question, he always advoids them or awnsers to a question that even isn't asked. If you constantly have to do this, I'd say there's something wrong, no?

Yeah those 3 are political animals, well they know how to play with the media. Governing however, that I don't know. And I'd like to keep it that way!

How they got ministerposts, they probably needed to be divided poltically correct so some women did get one.

I have no objection to clean nuclear energy, but fusion's going to take quite a while, and we don't have any alternatives at the moment. Everything Groen! or SPa suggest , must end by importing expensive nuclear power from France, or building/using more fossile fuels. And those are more polluting to the world than the small amount of nuclear waste that we can safely store or with new reactors even use.

Yes, I did say Nuclear fusion, if that's ever goign to happen. My thinking is, we should get rid of nuclear waist, but on a reasonable way. Doesn't have to be 2015 for me, a decent solution is all I want.

I've always found it a bad idea for idealists to run a country. They might have a vision, but lack the capability to make it work.

the first should should have been a schouldn't. The sentence doesn't make sense otherwise either.

[doc_bean]

Yes, I did say Nuclear fusion, if that's ever goign to happen. My thinking is, we should get rid of nuclear waist, but on a reasonable way. Doesn't have to be 2015 for me, a decent solution is all I want.

You do realize nuclear fusion is not going to rid of nuclear waste do you ? We're pretty much stuck with that. The best we can do to fix it is to improve fission reactors so they can work with low grade uranium and use the waste we have stored, they again will produce waste, but much less.

As for fusion; don't bet on it.

[Banquo's Ghost]

You do realize nuclear fusion is not going to rid of nuclear waste do you ? We're pretty much stuck with that. The best we can do to fix it is to improve fission reactors so they can work with low grade uranium and use the waste we have stored, they again will produce waste, but much less.

Actually, the best we can do (outside fusion) is work harder on thorium fission. Much less waste, much less risk of proliferation issues and almost all the major identified deposits (it's anyway more abundant than uranium) are in stable democracies.

Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread.

[Fragony]

Sorry but , you apparantly don't the VB verry well. My freind.

Also anyone noticed how half of their candidated are over 3 quarter a century old?

Even if it was true I don't care, one of the bigger dutch leftist party's is ex-maoist, nobody seems to mind that. VB has reactionary elements because there is nothing else, their program isn't that radical really. The real radicals are the pro-immigration party's, multiculture muss sein.

leads to things like this (taken from Geenstijl)

Het hoge woord is er eindelijk uit. De moordenaar van Marianne Vaatstra is hoogstwaarschijnlijk toch gewoon wel een asielzoeker. Daags na de brute moord op Marianne op 1 mei 1999 hebben er geheimzinnige acties plaatsgevonden in het asielzoekerscentrum in het Friese Kollum. De Televaag publiceert vandaag een brief van een anonieme tipgever die uit de school klapt. Gezien de inhoud is de brief geschreven door een medewerker van het Asielzoekers Centrum te Kollum, dat op een steenworp is gelegen van de plek waar Marianne Vaatstra werd verkracht en vermoord. "De dader mocht niet worden gepakt want dat zou het draagvlak van de asielopvang aantasten" schrijft de anonymus. Een erkende seriemoordenaar, die in eigen land werd gezocht voor het verkrachten en keeldoorsnijden van jonge meisjes, is vlak na de moord uit het AZC te Kollum gehaald, naar een opvang voor Moeilijk Opvoedbare Gelukszoekers verplaatst en vervolgens het land uitgezet. De dienstdoende ambtenaren kregen een zwijgplicht opgelegd. Methode doofpot. Het leven van een 16-jarige provinciemeisje is nou eenmaal minder waard dan de publieke opinie over het Asielzoekersbeleid. Er is zelfs een malle professor te voorschijn gehaald om iedereen wijs te maken dat het DNA van de dader wijst op een West-Europeaan. En als zelfs Peter R de Vries het zegt dan is het zo. Overigens zijn deze recente feiten geen nieuws voor de inwoners van Kollumerland en omstreken. Iedereen in Kollum kan u levendig vertellen dat de zoektocht met speurhonden destijds meteen werd afgeblazen toen de honden linea recta van Plaats Delict naar het AZC banjerden...

[doc_bean]

Okay election done, negotiations starting today. It's going to be interesting.

Some observations:

-The PS is no longer the biggest party across the language border, first time ever

-Leterme seems the most likely prime minister at this point, considering the opinion of him in Wallony I'm not sure this is a good thing. His program is also focused primarily on Flanders, I'm not sure what he wants to do for the country as a whole.

-I actually think the idea of always having a Flemish minister is kinda perverse, especially with all the complaining going on about the influence of the Walloon politician on Belgian policy. I'd say the best course of action for CD&V-NVA would be to not take the prime minister post and use their political credit to reform the state, since that's what they promised.

-CDH doesn't seem to keen to rule alongside their 'sister' party CD&V.

-The 'liberals' are still the biggest fraction in the federal parliament, I hope to see enough liberal influence on policy. I want those tax cuts !

-The socialists are all but dead in Flanders.

-VB is now the third party in Flanders (narrowly), they barely gained any new voters.

Predictions:

-Catholic-Liberal government

-the state reform won't be too radical, won't happen, or will be different from what people expect (those who now something about the federal system in the first place)

-CD&V-NVA needs to pick its fights, they're the biggest in Flanders but have no friends in Wallony. I think we'll some surprising 'concessions' soon.

-MR will be the de facto strongest party in the federal government, since they do have friends. The 'liberal' mark on the government and policy will be clear.

-VB realises it has hit a ceiling, they'll need to compromise (as an opposition party support the CD&V-NVA) and appear more acceptable if they want to grow.

Worst fear:

The tri-partite, socialists (PS) part of the government, it would ruin everything that has been accomplished. Keeping them out *is* worth postponing the state reform.

Actually, the best we can do (outside fusion) is work harder on thorium fission. Much less waste, much less risk of proliferation issues and almost all the major identified deposits (it's anyway more abundant than uranium) are in stable democracies.

Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread.

It's debatable, if we can use are nuclear waste and reduce the amount a hundred fold while getting energy out of it, I think it's worth taking a look at the option.

The real radicals are the pro-immigration party's, multiculture muss sein.

Both sides have extremes, there doesn't seem to be any 'draagvlak' for extreme-left immigration politics here anymore, Groen! is the only party that still believes in those, and it's a secondary issue for them (and possibly why they didn't gain more votes).

[Moros]

I'm not feeling much for that state feform. It's more about that they actually are reforming than what good the reform will bring.
Meh!

Worst elections ever. Well except for the VB. Bu then again if you count them up with Jearn Marie. Boekentas!

[Louis VI the Fat]

I'm not feeling much for that state feform. It's more about that they actually are reforming than what good the reform will bring.
Meh!

Worst elections ever. Well except for the VB. Bu then again if you count them up with Jearn Marie. Boekentas!

Worst election ever!? Gah! The PS lost, which makes it the greatest election result of all time in my book.
As for state reform, any coalition that manages to exclude the PS for a change would be enough of a reform.

[doc_bean]

I'm not feeling much for that state feform. It's more about that they actually are reforming than what good the reform will bring.
Meh!

I'm against it too, but we can always hope for the best...

Worst elections ever. Well except for the VB. Bu then again if you count them up with Jearn Marie. Boekentas!

Jean Marie doesn't have a racist agenda afaik.

EDIT: also; What Louis said.

[Sardo]

I, for one, welcome our new Christian Democratic overlords.







(voted blue )

[doc_bean]

(voted blue )

What's wrong with having voted the way you did ? Or are you just sad they lost ?

Voting is not about picking supporting the winner, it's about influencing the system.

Besides, you voted for the second largest party in Flanders, no shame in that position.

[Sardo]

It was, in fact, faked sadness at their loss, but really, 'influencing the system' is pretty much what I had in mind when I finally decided - mere minutes before voting, too. I felt the Christian Democrats didn't really deserve a landslide victory, and likewise the Liberals didn't deserve a severe beating. (Couldn't be bothered to explain that to my brother who delighted in mocking me for siding with the losers, though - he's the point-and-laugh type anyway.)

Still, I'm planning to read the papers and watch the news next time around, so I'll be capable of making a truly informed decision and won't have to rely on my gut so much (sorry, Stephen Colbert!). It's why I'm against compulsory voting (which I may have said before in the thread).

[doc_bean]

It's why I'm against compulsory voting (which I may have said before in the thread).

I've actually warmed up to the idea recently. Mostly because I realized how fast you can vote here, when i hear stories about waiting in line for hours to cast your vote, which seems to be the norm in some countries, I don't think it's too bad.

5 elections a decade and they cost me a total of about two hours, from leaving my door until getting back.

[Moros]

Jean Marie doesn't have a racist agenda afaik.
.

He doesn't, but I just can't stand him. You know there amways a few persons you just can't stand like Marcel van Thilt (or however you spell his name), Ben Crabé, Sabien Appelmans,... They were just born to irritate me. God told me so!

[Kralizec]

Worst elections ever.

Well, for you anyway ~:P

[Andres]

I was on a holiday during these elections. So I had an excuse for not participating.

Everything you ever wanted to know about Belgian politics can be found here.

After the last few weeks of polls, polls and polls and the reactions of our politicians on these polls, polls and polls + the various tv acts on several stupid and nonsensic televion shows from our politicians, I got utterly disgusted.

But the main reason for my disgust is the nepotism in our Belgian political parties:

SP.A: Freya Vandenbossche, Bruno Tobback, Maya Deti&#232;ge
CD&V: Tom Dehaene, Marie Declerck
Open VLD: Jean Jacques De Gucht, Matthias De Clercq
Vlaams Belang : Marijke Dillen

Do I need to continue?

I'm not feeling much for that state feform

Read "Compendium van het Belgisch Staatsrecht" from Andr&#233; Alen. After that you'll agree that we need a state reform, but a much bigger one than that which is considered by those nepotist fools that call themselves "politicians" and who only truly want to change pretend that they are going to change what gets enough media attention. In fact, the organisation of our "federal" state should be re-done from scratch. What we have now is, well, sad. Really sad.

One example: the sound produced by an air plane flying over Belgium (a country the size of a handkerchief) has to be conform with three different regulations. I rest my case.

I am past caring about Belgian politics and allthough I am well aware that indifference is the biggest enemy of democracy, I decided for myself to a) be abroad during belgian elections (which is approximately every year ) b) vote blanco if I cannot escape the country when that awfull period is there. During election time, I will rent/buy massive amounts of DVD's to avoid all political related television programs. As far as I am concerned, they can replace our election by a soccer competition.

Looking forward to see Geert Lambert and Michel Daerden running... And Bert Anciaux crying when he gets tackled by Elio Di Rupo.

[doc_bean]

But the main reason for my disgust is the nepotism in our Belgian political parties:

Glad I'm not the only one. That said, you can ahrdly blame the politician when JJ De Gucht gets easily elected and gets much more votes to his name than you'd expect from his position on, the list. The electorate is to blame.

EDIT: Moros and I are against the state reform partially because it's always done so badly, I believe we'd both favour a complete reform from scratch, if it was actually based on common sense or objective criteria this time.