EB/EB2 New Unit Thread

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I heard alot of the RTW formations are still in M2TW such as shieldwall, but they lack animations. (I think it was Zaknafien that was looking into it.)

[Zarax]

Yeah, it's kind of a pity that the EB team chose to stay on 1.5 as I sincerely think BI could have offered some interesting extras and new avenues for development but now with MTW2 the problem will be largely solved with its larger featureset available.

[blacksnail]

Yeah, it's kind of a pity that the EB team chose to stay on 1.5 as I sincerely think BI could have offered some interesting extras and new avenues for development but now with MTW2 the problem will be largely solved with its larger featureset available.

BI's interesting extras solve exactly none of the development issues we have behind the scenes, and taking advantage of them creates some new problems. Beyond this, BI is owned by less people than RTW. It's not an option for us to make it BI-exclusive.

[I Am Herenow]

But if eb2 is for kingdoms, prehaps there will be more units avalible then?

Too bad the modding community does not have the power to suggest to CA that they double the unit limit for Kingdoms.

Has a greater unit limit been mentioned? and more provinces would be nice while they're about it, too.

To be honest, guys, I'm confused - why set limits in the first place? I'm a complete technology noob, but why would CA want to deliberately hinder modders by imposing limits? Surely it's not hard for CA to change a few numbers and hope people have good enough PCs for it?

BI's interesting extras solve exactly none of the development issues we have behind the scenes.

What sort of problems are you having, if I may ask?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

To be honest, guys, I'm confused - why set limits in the first place? I'm a complete technology noob, but why would CA want to deliberately hinder modders by imposing limits? Surely it's not hard for CA to change a few numbers and hope people have good enough PCs for it?

The max unit/faction/province limit determines the amount the resources (CPU, RAM) that the app uses. Raising the unit limit regardless of whether you use the slots or no raises the workload on your machine.

If raising the cap pushes the resources needed to reasonably run the game above the min spec CA won't do it.

You are correct though, the actual changes in the code are relatively easy.

[blacksnail]

What sort of problems are you having, if I may ask?

As always, hammering the round EB peg into the square Vanilla hole.

[Lowenklee]

I recently paid a long overdue visit to the RTR forums at twcenter.net...

I'm certain the idea is not new to the EB team but they (the RTR team) seem to have gotten around the problem of limited faction slots using emerging factions and batch files, to be honest the whole description was somewhat confusing and I don't really understand it.

I'm curious what the reasons were for the EB team dismissing this approach, were there certain untenable side effects, or perhaps it was a workload issue?

Or is there another thread that covers all that information, I did do a cursory search with the keywords "batch files" but couldn't find anything specific.

As for new units, I would like to see an expanded roster of baltic and protoslavic units. There are albeit fantastical accounts of the nature of the people living in the area during the timeframe of EB afforded us by Herodotus (I think it was him), but certainly the archeological evidence could be used to bridge the gap between fact and fiction?

As is, the vast geographic area represented by these people lies underused. Stronger representation of baltic and protoslavic people would also make for an interesting environment wherein steppe peoples, germans, and thracian elements would have greater reason to contest these areas for locally available troops to use in foreign expansion elsewhere. It may also serve to check these peoples expansion so far from their homelands. At least in the case of the germans and their tendency to thunder across the east let them waste themselves a bit in the wilderness of russia and the baltic forests

In terms of general composition ideally they'd be cheap, of relative poor quality, but great ambushers and with certain habits of behavior distressing to more cultivated peoples?

As an aside, it would be nice to have an economic incentive to expansion in this area. Nothing on par with the southern trade routes but perhaps an increase on the income available through control of the amber trade or through more river port type options?

I'll look into how supportable the idea is from a historical standpoint as soon as I have a book or two available to me

[Redmeth]

As is, the vast geographic area represented by these people lies underused. Stronger representation of baltic and protoslavic people would also make for an interesting environment wherein steppe peoples, germans, and thracian elements would have greater reason to contest these areas for locally available troops to use in foreign expansion elsewhere. It may also serve to check these peoples expansion so far from their homelands. At least in the case of the germans and their tendency to thunder across the east let them waste themselves a bit in the wilderness of russia and the baltic forests

In terms of general composition ideally they'd be cheap, of relative poor quality, but great ambushers and with certain habits of behavior distressing to more cultivated peoples?

I agree on this plus the Sweboz usually conquer that area and just spam at least a couple of stacks of Kirisilinkas, no variety (maybe 1-2 baltic archers tops) maybe they should get more of their troops there or more baltic units should be implemented.

[I Am Herenow]

What does that damned waving-a-briefcase smiley mean?! People keep using it in their posts, but I can never understand what they mean by it!

And as I'm on the subject of stuff that bugs me because I don't understand it, what does "IIRC" mean?


P.S.

Lowenklee, as for what you actually posted, I agree with it

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The RTR batch files approach works by essetially them making 20 different mods. They make different mods based on each faction and you run a program to replace files in the RTW folder. When you start up their game you can only place as, say, Aedui or Arverni, but if you exit and run the Rome batch file, you can play as only Rome and there is no Arverni anymore. The Arverni slot is replaced by Roman Rebels.

What does that damned waving-a-briefcase smiley mean?! People keep using it in their posts, but I can never understand what they mean by it!

And as I'm on the subject of stuff that bugs me because I don't understand it, what does "IIRC" mean?

It is a guy with a hammer smashing stuff. IIRC = "If I recall correctly"

[Geoffrey S]

To be honest, guys, I'm confused - why set limits in the first place? I'm a complete technology noob, but why would CA want to deliberately hinder modders by imposing limits? Surely it's not hard for CA to change a few numbers and hope people have good enough PCs for it?

As Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla said, mainly hardware limitations. But also, think for a second about this: if there were no limits to how far RTW could be modded, and modders could add increasing amounts of factions and units as computers improved, wouldn't that rather hurt sales of future TW titles? They'd be creating their own competition.

[I Am Herenow]

It is a guy with a hammer smashing stuff. IIRC = "If I recall correctly"

Oh right, because he was talking about the Sweboz rampaging through somewhere - I get it now :) Cheers!

Think for a second about this: if there were no limits to how far RTW could be modded, and modders could add increasing amounts of factions and units as computers improved, wouldn't that rather hurt sales of future TW titles? They'd be creating their own competition.

To be honest, I disagree with you for several reasons:

1. Even if the limits were infinite, you would only want to add so much "stuff": after a certain point, the game would get ridiculous and unfocused (e.g. Rome is not MEANT to expand into China).
2. No matter how good a mod for "xTW 1" got, when "xTW 2" or "yTW" came out, its features would be better, so:
   • People would buy the new game.
   • The mod would get transferred to the new game, most probably, to take advantage of its new features.
3. Mods help to extend the life of a game - they are, in effect, free expansion packs - and some people might actually buy "yTW" not to play the game itself, but to play the latest version of their favourite mod!
4. The actual games are obviously advertised far more than their mods, and so casual gamers would only know about the actual TW games, and then possibly stumble upon a mod.
5. You need to buy the game in order to play the mod.

[AngryAngelDD]

Mods help to extend the life of a game - they are, in effect, free expansion packs - and some people might actually buy "yTW" not to play the game itself, but to play the latest version of their favourite mod!

for me this is a main reason why the game publishers/developers should make their game as mod-friendly as possible.
a lot of companies recently discovered this, as there are games still in development and have mod´s for them already in production.
even more...the developers invited the mod-makers to use the game´s SDK.

this brings a community to a game....and a community makes more people to buy the game....

so it would be very smart for CA/SEGA to help the best modding crew´s with improved/open game code.

on the other hand, CA´s xTW engine is very advanced. so giving away the code could spawn more competitioning games....but even this might be an advantage for the gamer....competition improves products...


AADD

P.S.: sorry for bad english

[Alexander777]

Teleklos Archelaou: "Twist history again"? To include a group of soldiers who died and whose city was destroyed - vs. having a group of soldiers who were serving as mercs and defending their city (successfully, for as long as was needed) against Pyrrhos in the year our game starts? Dude, there is no comparison. "There have been some that said" is a way of weaseling out of taking responsibility for the statement also.

First, I say what I say and mean what I mean. I do not "weasel" my way out of anything. If I did not like the Spartans in the game, I wouldn't be afraid to take credit for my statement. In fact, I think the Spartans are a great addition. I was simply refering to a few posts I read on other topics where people said they thought Corinthian Hoplites were more historically accurate than Spartans. Also, I stated that I did not know if the Sacred Band of Thebes would work in this game. It was just a suggestion. Since they obviously do not work, I will withdraw my suggestion. However, please don't attack my statements again and accuse me of being cowardly when you don't know what I mean.

Secondly, I hope that Kingdoms will increase the unit limit, since there will be several different campaigns. Even if there is no unit limit increase, I would still like to know everyone's thoughts on different units. After all, few of our suggestions will probably actually make it into the mod.

I also agree that there should be more Baltic units (if not a whole Baltic faction).