Need help from British friends

Okay, don't ask why, but I need to buy a lady's hat in Cumbria....

I knew you'd ask why. Fine, my mom is going to a launching at BAE Vickers. All fine and dandy, except she found out today that the Queen may actually be there.

Now, we're not big on British ettiqute, but after the excitement, and then the panic, and then the resignation wore off, in her last cell phone conversation she asked my wife and I to do what could to help her get one..

First, are hats required for outdoor summer functions? Gloves? If she shows up hatless, is it like wearing a tie-dye and sweatpants? How about the gloves? Nice idea or mandatory?

Second, she arrives at approximately 10AM GMT tomorrow (Thursday, June 7th.) The launching is Friday morning. She has a bunch of functions tomorrow afternoon and tomorrow evening. Any ideas on purchasing a hat somewhere in the Newbry Bridge, Cumbria area?

Any all suggestions/help most appreciated.

Screw that, put her in one of these t-shirts and she'll be the life of the party.



honestly Don, no clue, obviously. but i hope she has a safe trip and good luck coming up with something fast

Thanks Prole, but perhaps I should keep looking. Btw, I'm not allowed to go to Sox games anymore. You see that trouncing Friday night? I was there for it. Always happens when I go to see the Yanks in Fenway.

augh.... so it was your fault! I was just about to send you a lengthy PM giving my detailed analysis on the Sox season when that happened, but I figured it might be bad luck to go on with ranting about my prediction for a 90+ win season at that point. Anyway, good thing we're having our stumbles now, rather than late August or September.

Go Sox! (sorry to hijack, twice now :P )

No worries. I meant to get back to you late last week, but was right before the game and had to wrap up weekly reports and icky crap like that. As it turns out, I and the rest of Red Sox Nation (yourself included) would have been well served if I had slipped in front of the GreenLine "T" on my way over. I don't think I'm a jinx in general, but honestly, the Sox have never beat the Yankees with me in the park.

Anyway, hats, people, HATS!!! Why aren't you busily typing away offering suggestions at 3:30AM local time? I need your help here....

Did the invitation have a dress code on it?

Don't ask why I'm up, it's a long story.

Originally Posted by Proletariat

Screw that, put her in one of these t-shirts and she'll be the life of the party.

That covers, what 90% of the worlds flags and most funnily considering recent US-EU relations pretty much is the French colours too.

If you are going to wear that t-shirt to meet the Queen, you should at least add an extra U...

Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax

Did the invitation have a dress code on it?

Don't ask why I'm up, it's a long story.

Sorry, no idea on the invitation. The only person who could answer that is on a plane, somwhere over Greenland right now.

Right...well, then I'll assume the worst case scenario-namely, full morning dress-although this is BAE, not the Royal Enclosure. If that's the case then yes, she will need a hat. Gloves are probably optional, it depends on what kind of dress she's wearing really. It might be worth snapping up a pair and keeping them in a handbag. You wouldn't wear them-they'd just be held, for show

I can't see her getting sneered at by aristos if she gets it a bit wrong though. The dress code I've used as a base is more than likely far too proscriptive as well.

As far as actually buying a hat in Cumbria goes, I'm afraid you're on your own.

Wow, I am impressed by BKS's assured knowledge of British etiquette. As a fellow countryman, I am ashamed to say I am totally clueless on the matter. My only contribution is to say I doubt there is an enormous US-UK divide - if you dress like as if you were going to a US function attended by the President, you would not go disasterously wrong. And dressing up is always safer than dressing down.

But I suspect the Queen personally is quite relaxed about these things - some of the courtiers and high society people may be terribly prescriptive, but the top dogs are used to mixing with people from all over the world and probably less petty. I don't know if you saw Helen Mirren in the film about the Queen? I imagine there may be some truth in that portrayal, surprising as it was to see the Queen driving alone cross-country over the Scottish highlands in a landrover.

I once was about 6 meters away from the Queen with shorts and a rugby shirt on; nobody minded.

Don, I would find it surprising if you'd be able to get a hat in Cumbria. There just aren't any cities in the place. Kendal is about as big as it gets, and you're more likely to find hiking/mountaineering clobber than fancy hats and gloves.

Where in the UK is she flying to? If it's Manchester, then the jobs a good one. Harvey Nicks, Selfridges, Kendal Milne are just a few places where your mum would be certain to find the correct apparel. Also it might be worth mentioning to the sales assistant what she wants the stuff for.

Leeds and Liverpool would be similar but on a smaller scale.

If she gets to meet Phil she should ask him for a chicken gyros, they're delicious.

BKS is correct for very formal occasions such as Her Majesty's Garden Parties, but this is not the occasion.

Hats are no longer required for ladies in Her Majesty's presence, nor gloves. Indeed, over-dressing on a less formal occasion is seen as terribly middle-class and non-U.

Smart attire appropriate for the occasion is the way (if outdoors, welly-boots and smock may be too casual, though the Duchess of Devonshire is famous for her disregard in this matter, and your mother wouldn't want to get mistaken for her, trust me).

If your mother likes hats and wears them well, a low-key choice may be appropriate. I would advise to avoid however, as she will appear arriviste.

As econ21 noted, a good guide is that she should dress in the manner she might adopt if the president were coming to dinner or a outdoor event, but not over-dress. Garish colours are not a good idea, of course.

If she is introduced to Her Majesty, it is permissible these days for women to make a small bow from the neck rather than curtsey. The latter is an acquired skill that can make one self-conscious and look foolish in a stressful situation. Best to bow, take the hand if offered (rare) smile and answer questions if posed. Speak only if spoken too. Her Majesty is extraordinarily good at putting people at their ease, so don't worry. Smile and enjoy. Do not ask for an autograph.

The rules are very much more relaxed than they used to be. Your mother should not worry unduly.

econ21, Helen Mirren's portrayal of the Queen was damn near spot on. I've been hunting at Balmoral and the picnics portrayed are just right. Lady Ghost was appalled that Her Majesty served herself sandwiches etc, but then she's foreign and the Russian aristocracy are big on servants.

If the invitation does mention dress code, feel free to come back to us (or PM) with details and we can advise.

I think you can relax Don.

According to the Court Diary, Her Majesty is not due to visit Cumbria this week.

It will be the Duchess of Cornwall. So same rules apply, but she's not Queen yet, and don't call her "Your Majesty".

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Friday, 8th June

The Duchess of Cornwall Lady Sponsor, will attend the roll out for naming and launch of the first submarine in the Astute Class, at BAE Systems in Barrow-in-Furness, Cumbria.

You guys are the best. It sounds like my mom is fine, because she's actually wearing the dress she wore when she took Laura on a tour of my Dad's shipyard. Shame that Her Majesty won't actually be there, especially now that we know the hat is not required, but c'est la vie. If you don't mind my asking, how does one address the Duchess of Cornwall? Your Highness? And when you say same rules apply, is the curtsey still 'required'? How about the 'no speaking unless spoken to' part?

If anybody wants a laugh, I'll give the story of yours truly (along with Mrs. Corleone) going on a mad dash around what few stores we have in the greater Portsmouth area looking for ladies hats. I think a couple of the sales ladies actually thought I was being coy and wanted them for my 'routine', at least until Mrs. C and Jillian arrived on the scene.

"Your Highness" or "Ma'am" (mainly the latter) is acceptable. The same rules (no speaking unless spoken to, curtsey/bowing, et cetera) are also required.

On a similar note, I'm off to meet the Duke in the Palace of Holyroodhouse to get my gold Duke of Edinburgh's Award in July. We've been given a dress code, though.

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

You guys are the best. It sounds like my mom is fine, because she's actually wearing the dress she wore when she took Laura on a tour of my Dad's shipyard. Shame that Her Majesty won't actually be there, especially now that we know the hat is not required, but c'est la vie. If you don't mind my asking, how does one address the Duchess of Cornwall? Your Highness? And when you say same rules apply, is the curtsey still 'required'? How about the 'no speaking unless spoken to' part?

The Duchess of Cornwall (I'm sure you know, but just in case, is Camilla, the wife of Prince Charles) and should be addressed in the first instance as "Your Royal Highness, and thenceforth as "Ma'am".

The curtsey is still correct (but trust me, though etiquette still recommends it, it's not a manoeuvre one should attempt without practise) or that handshake is fine - but only if offered.

When I note that one should only speak when spoken to, this makes it easier for all concerned. The Duchess is likely to have many people to meet and thus is unlikely to want to engage in sustained conversation. It makes life easier for all if one responds to questions, but does not question back - there are of course moments when it may be polite to do so, but mostly the Royal Family is skilled in posing questions that elicit short responses.

So yes, if she asks, by all means respond, but don't expect to follow up with "Oh and did you see the Channel 4 documentary on Princess Diana?"

On a similar note, I'm off to meet the Duke in the Palace of Holyroodhouse to get my gold Duke of Edinburgh's Award in July. We've been given a dress code, though.

Don't forget the gyros.

So yes, if she asks, by all means respond, but don't expect to follow up with "Oh and did you see the Channel 4 documentary on Princess Diana?"

You naughty, naughty man.

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Thanks Prole, but perhaps I should keep looking. Btw, I'm not allowed to go to Sox games anymore. You see that trouncing Friday night? I was there for it. Always happens when I go to see the Yanks in Fenway.

Patriots are in minicamp. Red sox who?

Oh on topic: http://www.villagehatshop.com/womens_dress_hats.html

My wife has clicked on it once or twice....

Even if the queen dosent show, buy your mom a hat anyway Don !

give this instruction to your mum from me please: if your mother is so unlucky as to be within earshot of a british politico, tell her to go over and bend the little buggers ear, at which point she should instruct him in no uncertain terms that i want to see the Defence budget increased!

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

You guys are the best. It sounds like my mom is fine, because she's actually wearing the dress she wore when she took Laura on a tour of my Dad's shipyard. Shame that Her Majesty won't actually be there, especially now that we know the hat is not required, but c'est la vie. If you don't mind my asking, how does one address the Duchess of Cornwall? Your Highness? And when you say same rules apply, is the curtsey still 'required'? How about the 'no speaking unless spoken to' part?

If anybody wants a laugh, I'll give the story of yours truly (along with Mrs. Corleone) going on a mad dash around what few stores we have in the greater Portsmouth area looking for ladies hats. I think a couple of the sales ladies actually thought I was being coy and wanted them for my 'routine', at least until Mrs. C and Jillian arrived on the scene.

I live near the orignal Portsmouth and have a similar problem finding ladies.

And hats.

Edit:

Well done on the award Malcolm.

If anybody wants a laugh, I'll give the story of yours truly (along with Mrs. Corleone) going on a mad dash around what few stores we have in the greater Portsmouth area looking for ladies hats.

You would have had no more luck in the original Pompey. Its not just grim up north.

Not knowing any better, I took the (at the time) future Mrs Assassin on our very first weekend away to Portsmouth.

Lets just say I don't think Brighton need worry about losing its status as the traditional south coast venue of choice for a dirty weekend....

You don't get dirtier than Pompey. Or grubbier either. Still, if your idea of a romantic weekend is a visit to HMS Victory then go for it! We also have a great big tower which, on good days, offers views for miles around. That way you can see where you'd rather be!

Originally Posted by Duke Malcolm

"Your Highness" or "Ma'am" (mainly the latter) is acceptable. The same rules (no speaking unless spoken to, curtsey/bowing, et cetera) are also required.

On a similar note, I'm off to meet the Duke in the Palace of Holyroodhouse to get my gold Duke of Edinburgh's Award in July. We've been given a dress code, though.

Congrats, never finished my Gold, final exped fell through, plus I did myself an injury on Dartmoor during the practice.

Yeah, Pompey is grim, I think it just keeps getting worse. The harbour and the new shopping centre are okay though.

Right, Newby bridge is down at the southern tip of lake Windermere with Bowness on windermere and Windermere itself a mere 7 miles away from Newby Bridge. You will find a number of shops at Windermere and Bowness on Windermere such as Adini ladies fashion wear, Anna Rayna fashions and Anne Wilson ladies fashions plus the usual Dorothy Perkins high street shops etc. There should be plenty of choice.

Royalty are well funny. They are like living antiques of the 18th Century in today's world. I respect them, but also find them amusing.