Guild offered in the wrong place

**Philbert** · 06-05-2007, 16:58

In my current campaign, I basically rule supreme in Western Europe, but in the middle east the Mongols are still a strong opponent.
I have 2 castles in the middle east, Acre and and Gaza, and I have been training Norse Swordsmen there as much as possible, even though they aren't much use to me, to get Swordsmith guild points for those castles. However, in my latest turn I got offered a Swordsmith guild in Rennes!

I didn't know what to do because I don't know if:
- refusing it would decrease my Guild points, lowering my chances of getting a SM guild in the east,
- accepting it would reset the overall score also lowering my chances of getting one in the east.

I accepted it, but I regret that now, because I think the latter holds true.
What do you say?

**DVX BELLORVM** · 06-05-2007, 17:15

I don't think that refusing (or excepting) a guild in one settlement lowers a chance of getting it in another. Each settlement has a independent score for each guild type, and when you accumulated enough points, you receive an offer to build a guild.

You will find more information in this excellent Daveybaby's Guide to guilds

**Hermann the Lombard** · 06-05-2007, 17:27

The time I regretted accepting a guild offer was the first offer I ever got. I was so pleased to get it that I grabbed it, but it was a Thieves Guild in Venice and later I realized that (A) I would be offered many Thieves Guilds and (B) I would oh-so-much rather have a Merchants Guild there!

In my HRE game I am persistently offered guilds where I don't want them, especially Thieves Guilds and an Assassins Guild.

**Kobal2fr** · 06-05-2007, 17:28

Dvx is right. Each city/castle has its own tally, and refusing guilds doesn't cost you any points : destroying built guilds does.

**DVX BELLORVM** · 06-05-2007, 17:41

Originally Posted by Hermann the Lombard

The time I regretted accepting a guild offer was the first offer I ever got. I was so pleased to get it that I grabbed it, but it was a Thieves Guild in Venice and later I realized that (A) I would be offered many Thieves Guilds and (B) I would oh-so-much rather have a Merchants Guild there!

In my HRE game I am persistently offered guilds where I don't want them, especially Thieves Guilds and an Assassins Guild.

You can destroy unwanted guilds without any major consequences. You will loose 100 points in that settlement and 20 in all the others, but only for that guild type.

I also made the similar mistake in my first campaign, building every guild that was offered, without making any plans. So I ended up with more thieves guilds than I actually needed, not to mention the ones I captured.
Since I lacked Woodsman and Alchemist guilds, I decided to blow up two thieves guilds, and started to build archers in one, and canons and arquebusiers in other settlement, in order to gain some points. And after a few turns I did it!

**Philbert** · 06-06-2007, 08:59

Thing is, I had only just conquered Rennes, so I had no opportunity whatsoever to gain SM guild points there. Why was I offered one there?

I have read the guide you guys refer to, and it explicitly mentioned that for most guilds you can get settlement points and global points.

**DVX BELLORVM** · 06-06-2007, 13:52

Originally Posted by Philbert

Thing is, I had only just conquered Rennes, so I had no opportunity whatsoever to gain SM guild points there. Why was I offered one there?

That's because the points accumulated by the previous owner of the settlement are not lost when you capture it. It is also possible that the settlement had that guild before your occupation, but was destroyed during the siege.

Originally Posted by Philbert

I have read the guide you guys refer to, and it explicitly mentioned that for most guilds you can get settlement points and global points.

That's right, if you destroy a guild you loose 100 points in this settlement, and 20 points in all the others.

**Hermann the Lombard** · 06-06-2007, 23:04

Originally Posted by DVX BELLORVM

You can destroy unwanted guilds without any major consequences. You will loose points only in that settlement, and only for that guild type.

[later]

That's right, if you destroy a guild you loose 100 points in this settlement, and 20 points in all the others.

Aren't those contradictory? With some guilds wouldn't the loss of 20 points be prohibitive? Anyway, you've convinced me to send the wreckers to the Thieves Guild in Venice since I have another in Milan. [The wreckers wouldn't *dare* try that with an Assassins Guild!]

**DVX BELLORVM** · 06-06-2007, 23:27

Originally Posted by Hermann the Lombard

Aren't those contradictory?

Indeed they are

The second statement was written after better reading of the above mentioned guide... in the meantime I forgot about the first one
I've edited my original post and corrected the mistake. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Hermann the Lombard

With some guilds wouldn't the loss of 20 points be prohibitive?

IMO, no. Anyway, I was mainly referring to thieve's guild, I have many of them (or rather had many of them

), and I won't miss them if I never get another opportunity to build another one. Besides, each spy trained gives you 10 points, so loosing 20 points is not a problem. This is the case with most guild types, as training of a unit that gains points usualy adds 10-15 points.

I think the only guild type that could suffer that loss are the Crusader Knight's Chapter Houses.

**Hermann the Lombard** · 06-07-2007, 21:34

Thanks D.B. I demolished my Venetian Thieves Guild last night but at my glacial playing speed I haven't been offered anything else yet. I lost a bunch of points in Venice because I had been building spies there at a great rate with the intention of getting the next level. That project has now been moved to Milan. I'm working on assassins in Vienna and Merchants/Explorer's Guild in Arhus. I hope to get a Merchants Guild in Venice.

One consideration: I can build merchants in Arhus or Venice hoping to get a Merchants Guild, or I can build them in Genoa hoping to (A) get better merchants and (B) get the next level of guild.