Why so glum?

[Fleeb]

May just be me, but every campaign, using any faction, all my generals get the "gloomy" trait and eventually go morose. Every single one. Why does this happen, and how do I keep it from happening? It's really starting to bug me.

[Pharnakes]

Give them all a free package holiday to go and see the games... from the inside. That'll teach em!

[bovi]

At least there would be a rush of optimistic adoptees coming, irrationally .
Anyway, there are lots and lots of ways to get this trait, most of them unlikely. If you force march a lot or survive a lot of assassination attempts, you're likely to see the trait however.

[blank]

Anyway, there are lots and lots of ways to get this trait, most of them unlikely. If you force march a lot or survive a lot of assassination attempts, you're likely to see the trait however.

They also tend to get gloomy if they're under siege in a city. That doesn't apply to all, though.

[Pharnakes]

It realy just depends on the optimistic/pessimistic trait, surely.

[Fleeb]

Maybe, although it seems like, at one point or another, every single general will become gloomy. Optimist/ pessimist notwithstanding. And I very rarely get seiged.

Playing Lusotann right now, and 4 of my 5 generals are gloomy (and the one that's not is age 17). My last campaign was Casse, and every single general was gloomy. Before that I played Romans, and it was a while ago, but a very large number were gloomy IIRC.

May be the force marching thing, I do tend to push them hard.

Is it possible to just remove that trait? Without screwing the game up too badly I hope.

[bovi]

I would rather remove its effects than the trait itself. Then you won't have to worry about the triggers affecting it.

;Mod: EBMod220 - 5/03 : low energy general gets tired
;------------------------------------------
Trigger forcedmarching_low_temperament_general_gets_grumpy
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition Trait ForcedMarching > 0
          and Trait Temperament < 3

    Affects BlackBileHumour  1  Chance  100

This here is the reason then. I'm not sure how they get low or high temperament, but forced marching is guaranteed to lead to grumpyness if it is low. Maybe you should, you know, not push them so hard. It's only natural for them to resent their lot in life if you keep wearing them out.

Edit: Not to mention the host of other negative stuff that comes from it. It's a hint.

[Fleeb]

I guess the whole forced march thing doesn't make sense to me. Say I have a general and his unit of horse, attached to an army of foot soldiers. The general can move farther than the foot soldiers, so when they (the foots) are maxed out the general should still be able to move some distance. Why would he get worn out just tagging along with the foot sloggers? If I qwas pushing the general to his max movement every turn it would make sense, but I'm not.

And thanks BTW!

[QwertyMIDX]

Maybe because his troops hate him and are always sneaking up to his tent in the middle of the night and dumping the contents of the latrine on him. That would sure as hell make me gloomy!

Anyway, think about it, he's not tagging along, he's working his ass off to get his soldiers to move quickly. He's getting up hours before dawn every morning, going to bed very late, constantly wary about enemy ambushes because there's not enough time to scout properly, dealing with logistical nightmares caused by the supply train not being able to keep (and not being well protected). I mean the list just goes on and on. Maybe gloomy isn't the best trait, but tired and prematurely grey sure would work.

[Spoofa]

Maybe, although it seems like, at one point or another, every single general will become gloomy. Optimist/ pessimist notwithstanding. And I very rarely get seiged.

Playing Lusotann right now, and 4 of my 5 generals are gloomy (and the one that's not is age 17). My last campaign was Casse, and every single general was gloomy. Before that I played Romans, and it was a while ago, but a very large number were gloomy IIRC.

May be the force marching thing, I do tend to push them hard.

Is it possible to just remove that trait? Without screwing the game up too badly I hope.

mid-life crisis.

[BozosLiveHere]

I'm not sure how they get low or high temperament, but forced marching is guaranteed to lead to grumpyness if it is low.

Temperament is one of our six primary attributes. It shows up as Optimist/Pessimist to the player.

[LordCurlyton]

And besides, I almost never get Gloomy/Morose/etc Generals unless they start as Pessimists and get the trait to start. Every now and then I get a person who develops a "Why me?" complex later in life but not too often. I tend to respect the forced marching trait, even if it can be irksome at times (not a complaint, as I actually like it). Its the amount of time that it can take Weariness to wear off (especially the higher versions) which is killer. So I always try to leave a little movement left, and usually it works out. I mean, why would I enter the enemy's territory and lose my well supplied status when I can camp at the border and not get forced marching or loss of well supplied?

[Pharnakes]

Changes to export_descr_character_traits are non save compatible, though are they not?

[bovi]

AFAIK it depends. If you remove any traits you should be sure that no character has them. Including enemy ones, so it's impossible to know without using perfect_spy. Adding new traits and modifying their effects is okay I think, and the triggers certainly can be changed as you like with compatibility.

[Pharnakes]

Strange, cause I was tying to edit the conquering hero traits, but even though I only changed the effects, they didn't show up in the game.

[Watchman]

Did you change the entry in /text/exports_VnVs.txt too ? The game takes the description of the traits and their effects exclusively from there AFAIK...

[Pharnakes]

I think I must have since the effects work in a new campign, but I can't actualy remember, it was quite a while ago.

[Fleeb]

What would I change to just decrease this traits frequency (as opposed to eliminating it totally)? I understand the reasoning for it, but it seems to show up way too easily.

[bovi]

;Mod: EBMod220 - 5/03 : low energy general gets tired
;------------------------------------------
Trigger forcedmarching_low_temperament_general_gets_grumpy
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition Trait ForcedMarching > 0
          and Trait Temperament < 3

    Affects BlackBileHumour  1  Chance  100

[BozosLiveHere]

Changes to export_descr_character_traits are non save compatible, though are they not?

Depends. The save file apparently references to line numbers to store what traits a certain character has, so as long as you keep all the old traits in the same lines as they were before, it should be compatible (not an easy task though).

[Palasta]

some of my generals and governors have this trait too, but i am content with them. they do very fine in my opionion. especially one of my generals. got 5 commandstars (+2 when attacking), 5+ moral, barbarian turncoat, vanquisher of the gali and only 19 years old. he's a good boy... a real conquerer...

[Fleeb]

Thanks again Bovi!

The 100 means there's a 100% chance of the trait occuring? If I set that to 50 would it only come up half the time? Please forgive my ignorance.

[Moros]

1 chance 100 doesn't that mean, one chance on hundred, meaning 1% chance?

[bovi]

Okay, traiting 101:

;------------------------------------------
Trigger forcedmarching_low_temperament_general_gets_grumpy
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition Trait ForcedMarching > 0
          and Trait Temperament < 3

    Affects BlackBileHumour  1  Chance  100

Name of trigger
When should this happen? At the end of the turn, for characters
What are the prerequisites for this to have an effect? The guy must have been forced marching and have a pessimistic outlook
Which trait should this trigger affect, and how much? BlackBileHumour (meaning melancholy), by a level of 1
How likely is it that it has the effect? 100% chance