Prodromoi Masks unit questions

[keravnos]

But the Medieval European stuff can't really hold a candle to the anthropomorphic face-masks of the Asiatic cataphracts when it comes to trading comfort and visibility for protection...

2 Quick facts...

1. It all started with some wax you put on your face. Then some armourers got that waxmask and made it into an iron/bronze facemask. Then it would suit your face forever. This was started in Hellenistic Greece. I agree that the Iranians have had a great tradition (and so do the Romani writers, especially those covering the withdrawal after Julian's death...hint hint) but hey, let's give credit where it is due. From what I have read, I believe that facemasks were started in some Hellenistic state. Then, especially after the collapse of the Seleukids, their facemask makers were used to great effect by the Pahlavan, and the later Iranian state entities up until/ and including the Kiphaq... bah can't find them right, now but I am sufre you know waht we mean

2. Do check this out...
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=7604

[Watchman]

The Hellenics may have put the ball rolling, true, but that was the eastern branch of them and in any case it was the various "easterners" who made use of such face defences the longest.

And, frankly, having seen pictures of the things, I don't entirely comprehend how you could see much anything through those little peepholes left for the eyes in most designs - or draw much air through the typically equally minimal opening for the mouth and nostrils.

But given how long they were used, they clearly did their jobs.

Side note: while I don't really see the relevance, thanks for the link - I learned something new and nifty again today.

[The Persian Cataphract]

Keravnos is correct, the origin of the facemask, especially in equestrian terms, is profoundly Hellenic. Post-Achaemenid Iranians brought their own flavour to this art, which is at the beginning only slightly distinguished from the Greek "bearded masks" but later leans towards a more local "heroism", featuring exaggerated moustaches, and leading into some very elaborate helmet designs made to fit with the mask. When it came to heavily armed Sassanid cavalry, apart from the open aventail, there was the facemask, veils, and of course "browed masks" which combined the best of both worlds. This had a most significant effect on especially Turkic (Gök and Khazars) tribes, and perhaps more astonishing is that this type of helmet has been found in Sweden dated to the Vendel culture. Rûs and Kipchaqs (Polovtsians) would perpetuate this practice for centuries.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Thread split and opened.

[abou]

The image of the man in the full panoply is really close to our Prodromoi mask; however, there are actual examples of the mask in question. Urnamma (his unit, after all) and Paullus have seen it. Although finding the citation in their notes for it or remembering exactly where it was seen is a different matter.

Examples of masks exist, but it seems that whenever you do a search for them in Google all you get are Roman examples, which is frustrating. I seriously can't help but think that it is published in some German or French article from long ago (and you thought you just needed to know Greek and Latin).

One nice example I found is an bronze, Etruscan, ritual helm. The crest holder up top is bent, but it would have held a truly massive crest.

[Sarcasm]

Thread split and opened.

Respect.

[abou]

Reviving this thread so that it can be answered more thoroughly.

An example of a mask such as the one on the prodromos can best be seen on a relief from Pergamon, which shows a pile of Seleukid military equipment. I'll be damned if I can find it easily online, but you can best see it in a few Osprey publications. For example, the fellow on the far right is wearing not only the helmet and mask, but also the arm protectors, sword, and linothorax from the relief. More importantly, a prodomos could afford a mask with his helmet, and, considering his role to chase down skirmishers and skirmishing cavalry (units which throw things), a mask to protect the face from a thrown projectile would probably be desirable. Plus, it could come handy in a cavalry melee.

So yeah, just didn't want this to go unanswered since I recently came upon the specifics.

[geala]

Maybe the Prodromoi are medium cavalry but they were quite heavily armoured. So a closed helmet is not a contradiction in itself. And I don't see why the tasks of medium cavalry could not be done with such helmets.

M. Junkelmann states when using a Roman cavalry helmet with a face mask that vision and the ability to breath were not reduced unacceptably. And the wearer can act more ruthlessly because he knows his vulnerable face is protected.

I like the Prodromoi too.