What is a Christian

[Gawain of Orkeny]

This thread is also inspired by Navs thread and this from a new thread

jesus gave the golden rule to love god and he said that anyone can be forgiven by their loving god, when he died on the cross the purpose was to garentee no punishment for us, theres no judgement in christianity everyone is free, the most important gift, the gift of freedom is preserved in this) other religions have rules and requirements as if such things are always linked with spirituality but i can not eat pork and still not love god i cannot love god and not love him...

What makes a person a Christian? Being a member of some Christian church? The belief that Jesus is god? Well these things do make you a Christian but is that the only way? I say no. Even though I claim not to be a Christian in the sense of Thomas Jefferson I am as good if not a better Christian than many who belong to such churches.

Thomas Jefferson

in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. If I had time I would add to my little book the Greek, Latin and French texts, in columns side by side. And I wish I could subjoin a translation of Gosindi's Syntagma of the doctrines of Epicurus, which, notwithstanding the calumnies of the Stoics and caricatures of Cicero, is the most rational system remaining of the philosophy of the ancients, as frugal of vicious indulgence, and fruitful of virtue as the hyperbolical extravagances of his rival sects.

What a great man. Even if he did own slaves

[doc_bean]

You're a Christian of you think of yourself as a Christian.

The different churches often have stronger criteria though.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

ou're a Christian of you think of yourself as a Christian.

So one who merely follows the teachings of Jesus is not a Christian? Also isnt that a bit simple Im sure you will get some flak from Christians on that remark.

[doc_bean]

So one who merely follows the teachings of Jesus is not a Christian? Also isnt that a bit simple Im sure you will get some flak from Christians on that remark.

Well, if he doesn't think of himself as a Christian, he probably doesn't mind not being classfied as one

It is simple, but a stricter definition will include bias and will inevitably consider some groups which consider themselves (the one true group of) Christians as non-Christians, which is a judgmeent only the Christian God, should he exist, should be able to make.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

well i believe the term christian was originally an insult used against the followers of christ, its not realy important its just a general word for those who follow various forms of jesus's teaching

[Pindar]

What makes a person a Christian?

A Christian is one who believes Jesus is the Christ. Conduct is a separate issue.

[Lorenzo_H]

A Christian generally:

1. Accepts the Bible as the word of God.
- Therefore believes in God.
2. Wishes to carry out the will of this God.
3. Accepts that Jesus Christ is
i) A perfect example of how we should live our lives.
ii) that we have fallen short of this standard of perfection.
iii) and therefore deserve punishment for failing to comply with God's supreme plan for the universe.
4. Accepts that Jesus Christ made a great sacrifice by allowing himself to die in our place as a perfect sacrifice without blemish.
i) note that Jesus proved he was sovereign over death by rising from the dead.
5. And therefore can once again be holy and pure.

Christianity is NOT a religion. It is a relationship with God. You either accept Christ, or you hate him; I guess that is one way of differentiating Christian from non Christian, although there are some Christ-admirers who refuse to accept that he was in fact, God in the form of a man and that he has the power to save us.

Sub note: the figure Satan is heavily involved in Christian beliefs. He is:
a) The antithesis of God, hating God's standard
b) And trying to destroy everything God created, including you.
c) He is however, subject to God having been originally a creation of God's.

Note on Heaven and Hell:

Try not to think of Heaven as the place where the good guys go when they die to get good stuff and have a happy time, and try to avoid the stereotypical depiction of hell as a place of fire and torment. From what I know, these two descriptors do apply, but try to think of Heaven=with God, and Hell=seperation from God. These are the main factors.

Some people believe the Heavenly world exists in another Dimension (it has been scientifically verified that there are at least 11 dimensions, including the 4 with which we relate; 1st Dimension, 2nd Dimension, 3rd Dimension and what we call Time). They believe that there are 7 parts to the Heavenly realm, the most secluded part being Hell, and a physical and immpassable gap between these dimensions, and that residents of hell, poor guys, can see into heaven but not be there (and this is the extent of the torture, I hope). I personally think that theory is just a scientific effort to express what we cannot. It's also slightly off topic.

[Bijo]

While that explanation proves useful, there's a much shorter and simpler way of telling what a Christian is: a Christian is an entity seeking comfort, solace, strength, etc., by believing and praying to a so-called entity they assume exists, even if it cannot be proven, and they take the word of any well-positioned human being of the kirk seriously, as they'd follow them blindly most likely.

[ajaxfetish]

A Christian generally:

1. Accepts the Bible as the word of God.
- Therefore believes in God.
2. Wishes to carry out the will of this God.
3. Accepts that Jesus Christ is
i) A perfect example of how we should live our lives.
ii) that we have fallen short of this standard of perfection.
iii) and therefore deserve punishment for failing to comply with God's supreme plan for the universe.
4. Accepts that Jesus Christ made a great sacrifice by allowing himself to die in our place as a perfect sacrifice without blemish.
i) note that Jesus proved he was sovereign over death by rising from the dead.
5. And therefore can once again be holy and pure.

I think you're getting directly into the kind of bias that Doc Bean was worried about. Much of the Bible (in fact the entire Christian testament) was written after Jesus' death. Does this mean that his followers during his lifetime were not Christians? I think you'll find Christian sects that take issue with some of your other criteria as well.

Ajax

[Navaros]

I do not even know what a Christian is any more. Over the past couple of months after having read a post by Dave and a post by Gawain, and then having some encounters with some Christians, I've had to rethink what a Christian is.

I used to think that Christians who subscribed to a "do nothing policy" were in fact not Christians and instead were words which I am banned from saying on the Org.

Yet upon further reflection, it seems I must acknowledge that Jesus did in fact have a "do nothing policy", so I can't really blame Christians for likewise subscribing to such a "do nothing policy".

However, I agree more with God of the Old Testament, who had anything but a "do nothing policy" and gave orders to put down all manner of debauchery with the full force of the law.

In addition to advocating a "do nothing policy", Jesus also said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Which means that Jesus agrees with God of the Old Testament and everything he said, despite Jesus himself promoting an opposite message.

I no longer consider myself to be a Christian because I do not believe in Jesus' "do nothing policy" but rather I agree with God's "bold action policy". At the same time, I am not prepared to deny the divinity of Jesus. I do belive Jesus is indeed the Son of God.

I am confident that someone is not a Christian just because he says he is. Jesus said that not everyone who says to him "Lord, Lord" will enter into the Kingdom. In other words, according to Jesus, calling/thinking of one's self as a follower of Christ aka" Christian" is not sufficient on it's own for actually being a Christian.

It seems that although according to Jesus and the apostles, works cannot save you, one who proclaims Jesus' name ,yet his life is full of nothing but immoral works, still shall not be entering into the Kingdom.

Of course trying to make sense of all these contradictions and unclearness is no easy task, and I'm not sure it can be definitely done in a way which is not skewed by the flawed personal interpretations by man's inadequate mind. It's simply too complex of a thing for a man to figure out.

The only foolproof way to get an accurate answer to what Christian is would be for Jesus and God to directly say so in public, and then stay for a very long Q&A session afterwards so that there can be zero misunderstandings.

[doc_bean]

I am confident that someone is not a Christian just because he says he is. Jesus said that not everyone who says to him "Lord, Lord" will enter into the Kingdom. In other words, according to Jesus, calling/thinking of one's self as a follower of Christ aka" Christian" is not sufficient on it's own for actually being a Christian.

Being a christian and being right are two different things, even if one of the Christian 'cults' actually got it right. Does that make everyone who got it wrong non-christians ?

This is an impossible criteria to maintain since no one can answer the question of who is right (for all but the good Lord Himself, and he doesn't seem to like public appearances.)
And even if this was an answerable question, would all those who got it wrong even be non-chrsitians instead of misguided ones ?

a Christian is an entity seeking comfort,

Obviously you're not a Catholic...

[KukriKhan]

The only foolproof way to get an accurate answer to what Christian is would be for Jesus and God to directly say so in public, and then stay for a very long Q&A session afterwards so that there can be zero misunderstandings.

Now, wouldn't THAT be something? :)

Since that hasn't happened yet, I guess we fall back on that 'leap o'faith' thingee.

Seems awfully unfair though, don't you think? We are to live our lives in compliance with rules set down by someone/something we can't even see or perceive, to their satisfaction and standards on Judgment Day - surely a losing situation for most of us - except: if we 'hire' Jesus as our lawyer by 'believing' in him during life, he'll stick up for us that day, and we'll get a pass.

I agree; a Q&A would be handy.

[Xiahou]

A Christian is one who believes Jesus is the Christ. Conduct is a separate issue.

I think that' s the simplest and most straightforward definition- gets my vote.

[doc_bean]

A Christian is one who believes Jesus is the Christ. Conduct is a separate issue.

I think that' s the simplest and most straightforward definition- gets my vote.

This was my first idea too, but what is 'the Christ' ? Jesus=God is ehavily disputed by some, Jesus=Messiah is commonly accepted amongst christian, yet I do now some people who wouldn't subscribe to that. I also know people who refer to themselves as christians who don't believe the Jesus of the Bible is the historical Jesus. Who am I to say they can't call themselves christians ? How is anyone able to do that ?

[Lemur]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe "christ" is just an Anglicization of christos, which means "anointed one." (I think it could also be read as "covered in oil.")

LorenzoH, how do you figure that the devil "figures prominently" in Christian belief? He doesn't have many appearances in the Bible. If anything, the medieval church elevated the status of Satan quite a lot, for reasons that escape me. A lot of Christians I know seem to think that Dante's Inferno and Milton's Divine Comedy are books of the Bible, which they are not.

As for a literalist, inerrant reading of the good book, I always thought the lack of that was one of the huge advantages Christianity historically had over other faiths. Take a long, hard look at how well literalism has worked out for the salafists.

[Xiahou]

This was my first idea too, but what is 'the Christ' ? Jesus=God is ehavily disputed by some, Jesus=Messiah is commonly accepted amongst christian, yet I do now some people who wouldn't subscribe to that. I also know people who refer to themselves as christians who don't believe the Jesus of the Bible is the historical Jesus. Who am I to say they can't call themselves christians ? How is anyone able to do that ?

I would put forth that acknowledging Jesus as the Christ would have to also acknowledge at some level his divine nature. I think there's an important distinction in "the Christ" as opposed to the literal definition of "christ". As such, I would not call anyone who denies Christ's divinity a Christian- I can't control what they want to call themselves though.

Seriously, if you're calling yourself Christian but don't think Jesus was divine, what are you saying? You believe he was covered in oil? The meaning of the Christian Christ is much more than the literal meaning of it's Greek root.

[Samurai Waki]

hmm. Well I do believe that if you believe that Christ is Your Lord and Savior that makes you a Christian. However, living by the examples that Christ has given humanity, or not depends on whether you could be considered a Good Christian or a Bad One.

On an Off-Note: I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Jews back in the Day looked at the Torah as being purely divine, and every word was to be taken as literal truth. One of the big problems the Jews had with Christ is that he challenged that belief, and that he firmly believed that not only should priests be able to read The Holy Scriptures, but all. This is why many people have a difficult time reading the bible, the Torah was written literally, the New Testament written as an open interpretation. I think it was an Early Christian belief that when the New Testament was written it was to be done in a fashion that would maintain Christ's enigmatic stature, This was done so that you're not supposed to know what is to be taken literally and what is to be interpreted personally. A Position I might add, that the Church has held onto since the beginning of their organization. Some however, have skewed this outlook on the bible, because it was never actually written in it. All in all, I have to say that the Bible remains one of the most mysterious pieces of work in all history, and should be revered as a part of our heritage, but at the same time feared in the way it can be misleading or cause misunderstanding.

My High School Teacher (I went to Catholic School) once said "The Bible Cannot be Read."

[doc_bean]

Seriously, if you're calling yourself Christian but don't think Jesus was divine, what are you saying? You believe he was covered in oil? The meaning of the Christian Christ is much more than the literal meaning of it's Greek root.

Some people believe Jesus was a prophet, but not the Messiah. Some people believe Jesus was a spirtual leader, like Buddha, not a god but an enlightened human who educated us and shown us 'the way'.

Especially with catholics there's a huge group of non-believers (or partial believers) who go to mass for the sake of tradition or 'community spirit' or because they just find it enlightening (on an intellectual level).

[CountArach]

I will always apply the term Christian to one who believes that Christ is their saviour.

[Ignoramus]

A Christian is a person who:

- acknowledges themselves to be a sinner and that the only way of salvation is by confessing that they are a sinner to God, surrending their life to Jesus, and trusting God for their forgiveness.
- believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
- believes that Bible is the infallable word of God.
- believes that Jesus died on the cross for their sins.
- believes that Jesus rose again from the dead.

[Rodion Romanovich]

What makes a person a Christian?

A Christian is someone who believes in the Christian God in a way that isn't considered heretical by his church community at the moment.

[Lorenzo_H]

Every time I say something controversial, I expect people to disagree. There are varying opinions and such, but I gave you a (biased) opinion, and you will all give yours. There is no such thing as an objective view on Christianity. I do not want to read the term "blind faith" anywhere; it annoys me greatly because all faith is blind - thats what the word means.

I wonder; are any of you here of the opinion that there is no truth? I don't know if its related...

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I would put forth that acknowledging Jesus as the Christ would have to also acknowledge at some level his divine nature. I think there's an important distinction in "the Christ" as opposed to the literal definition of "christ". As such, I would not call anyone who denies Christ's divinity a Christian- I can't control what they want to call themselves though.

What do we mean by divine nature. That he is god or that he is inspired by god. Is god so vain that he need be worshiped? That you must bow down to him and praise him. That you must recognise him as your master? I dont think so. Was Mohamed divine?

Seems awfully unfair though, don't you think? We are to live our lives in compliance with rules set down by someone/something we can't even see or perceive, to their satisfaction and standards on Judgment Day - surely a losing situation for most of us - except: if we 'hire' Jesus as our lawyer by 'believing' in him during life, he'll stick up for us that day, and we'll get a pass.

Exactly.

Now according to many of you Thomas Jefferson wasnt a christian yet he claims to be a true christian. Then there is always the little thing about translations. Ive heard many a time Jesus never claimed to be the son of god and that he was misinterpreted. He claimed to be a son of god as are we all. That if we all live according to the rules put forth by him we too can reside with our father in heaven. God had sent him to show us the light. Not to worship him.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

A Christian is a person who:

- acknowledges themselves to be a sinner and that the only way of salvation is by confessing that they are a sinner to God, surrending their life to Jesus, and trusting God for their forgiveness.
- believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
- believes that Bible is the infallable word of God.
- believes that Jesus died on the cross for their sins.
- believes that Jesus rose again from the dead.

I'm afraid you're wrong.

A Christian is quite simply someone who believes Jesus was The Christ (The Anointed One) otherwise known as the Messiah, the profecied king of the Jews.

A follower of Jesus' teachings is not a Christian, nor is someone who believes he was the Son of God unless they also believe he was the Messiah.

Several Christian sects refused to accept Jesus as divine and several others refused to accept him as mortal. They're still Christians because they believe he was the Messiah.

In fact, Muslims are are also, strictly speaking, Christians because they acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah.

[Don Corleone]

Nm.

[Zaknafien]

you could make an arugment that the Catholic church and its Protestant off-shoots are not Christians at all, where the so-called "gnostic" followers of Christ are the originals. Their form of Christianity was so different than what is accepted as orthodoxy today, and theirs was much older too.

[KukriKhan]

I caution all that, whatever your individual level of belief in or about religious figures and doctrine, that your comments about them maintain respect and dignity toward the people who hold those beliefs - individually, and collectively.

Pick a religion apart, argue for or against a tenet of faith = OK. Bash = not OK.

Thank you for your time.

[Fragony]

While that explanation proves useful, there's a much shorter and simpler way of telling what a Christian is: a Christian is an entity seeking comfort, solace, strength, etc., by believing and praying to a so-called entity they assume exists, even if it cannot be proven, and they take the word of any well-positioned human being of the kirk seriously, as they'd follow them blindly most likely.

A very European point of view. Indeed, christians are dust covered relics from the old times, in great contrast with muslims who are deeply spiritual and very concious of their traditions

[Zaknafien]

wouldn't followers of the dozens of other Messiahs be called Christians as well, then?

[Devastatin Dave]

If you believe that Jesus dies for your sins, then your a Christian. Also if you are being chased around with pitch forks and torches and possibly a rope held by liberals, you're a Christian.