Death Penalty Really Does Work as a Deterrent?

[sapi]

Well, I was writing that not so much in respect to the death penalty topic itself but to two recent cases in australia.

In the first case, two teenage girls murdered another because they decided that "they wouldn't mind killing someone"

The second is more relevant, and it's the case of a woman who murdered because she logically reasoned that life in jail would, for her, be better than life outside of it. Nice

[ajaxfetish]

There's a fairly big scandal rumbling in the UK over Operation Ore or some such. The US provided the Uk police with credit card details used for nasty websites. But there's pretty good evidence that many were cases of wholesale id theft (eg lots of "users" paid but never viewed the site - basically the site owners were using stolen cards to get rich). The police were not computer savy enough to realise this and besmirched the good name of quite a few victims of identity theft.

There were also a number of child abuse cases where hundreds of parents were accused of doing nasty things to their kids on clinical evidence that now looks ropey.

Indeed, the prosecution of pedophiles has an emotional charge and willingness to accept unreliable evidence that is sometimes reminiscent of witch trials and the McCarthy days. It is certainly a serious crime, and must be taken seriously, but overzealous prosecutors have stained the reputations of many innocent individuals with assumed guilt and poor evidence.

Ajax

[AntiochusIII]

In the first case, two teenage girls murdered another because they decided that "they wouldn't mind killing someone"

I suspect that kind of idiocy does not take into account any deterrence effect from potentially harsher punishments anyway. They will either:

1) think themselves invincible. Teenagers are notorious for that. They'll never get caught.

2) think that, as minors (I'm assuming they are here), even with the death penalty sitting there they'll likely get a lesser sentence anyway.

3) plain psychopathic. In that case I don't claim to be an expert on psychopathy, and the way psychopaths think is curiously different in many disturbing ways.

Do they deserve death for committing that kind of premeditated crime? That's another matter I think. Although it does fit into the larger Capital Punishment debate in general. I don't mind if we want to go there.

The second is more relevant, and it's the case of a woman who murdered because she logically reasoned that life in jail would, for her, be better than life outside of it. Nice

Strange woman. Is she truly in such a desperate lot? Could (if it's not too liberal-y) I blame it as a failure case for the social system in Australia? Would she think of death as the same liberation from whatever made she think she's better off in jail?

[Hosakawa Tito]

The second is more relevant, and it's the case of a woman who murdered because she logically reasoned that life in jail would, for her, be better than life outside of it. Nice

As illogical as that may appear; I have heard the same sentiments expressed also. On the street, many have few friends, no stable place to call home, getting the basic necessities of life can be uncertain at best. In the jail they get medical, dental, eye care, 3 square meals a day, clothing, a warm dry, relatively safe place to sleep. All it costs is your freedom. Sad indeed, Sapi.

[Ironside]

As illogical as that may appear; I have heard the same sentiments expressed also. On the street, many have few friends, no stable place to call home, getting the basic necessities of life can be uncertain at best. In the jail they get medical, dental, eye care, 3 square meals a day, clothing, a warm dry, relatively safe place to sleep. All it costs is your freedom. Sad indeed, Sapi.

Certainly sad, but the question is how you deal with people thinking this way. If murder gives you death penalty, frame yourself for manslaughter, if any killing gives death penalty, steal, deal drugs etc, etc.

What's left? Even more brutal prisons and/or body mutilation? Doesn't seem appropriate on the others in there, some of them won't commit a crime again.

[rory_20_uk]

As medicine gets better the cost of prisons also increases. Previously, there was little that could be done with most things, and people just died.

Now there is a myriad of treatment that is increasing in cost and for some reason all are entitled to everything.

A prison doesn't need to be "brutal", it can merely be Spartan. Limit the healthcare to the bare essentials would massively reduce the cost for example, or allow inmates to pay for extras with the profits going to the state.

Do all prisoners in the USA do some sort of labour? If not, why not (no idea why it doesn't happen in the UK either - probably against their Human Rights... )