best eng cav

[Brogie]

just wonder what best cavalry is for english to use and how/when to use them

[Flavius Merobaudes]

Try to get Hospitallers or Templars, but prefer Hospitallers because their chapter houses bring a nice health bonus with them.

Demi lancers are good late era cav with nice attack values, but don't let them melee.

Generally, I would stick with mailed knights. They can do the same job as feudal knights but are cheaper and have more time to gain exp. English knights are expensive but not much better.

[Thurak]

Surprisingly I usually go for the light cavalary. With those longbowman and swordsmen you simply don't need a heavy cavalary to assault the enemy. Just rain arrows on them and let your swordmen finish the rest. The light cav can destroy enemy archers/crossbowmen and catapults and such stuff after the melee has begun and if the enemy still fights after that, those hobilars can perfectly charge in the back of them.
For enemy cav you have your spikes. Or you can always focus your arrows on those units.

[HoreTore]

You have a choice of three, demi-lancers, order knights and english knights, and they all perform the task of heavy cavalry, altough in different ways:

Demi Lancers: The main bonus of these, is that they can be recruited in cities everywhere, and quite a few of them too, so you'll never have any problem recruiting them. They have a wonderful attack, but they are not very armoured. So, they cannot be pinned down. If you never let them do that, they'll do wonderfully. Another bonus, is that they are faster than other heavy cavalry.

Order knights: These are hard-hitting and well armoured, quite the typical heavy cavalry. However, they are slow, and recruiting/retraining them when they are needed can be a problem. Let's face it, you won't have that many chapter houses, and you'll want to recruit them from the city with the HQ guild.

English knights: contrary to Flavius' statement, these guys are wonderful. What makes them good isn't their attack rating, but their secondary weapon, an armour piercing axe. This makes them excellent heavy cav hunters, and they'll do better than the rest when trapped by infantry. Their attack rating is also sufficient for a charge.

[econ21]

Good question.

I'd say mailed knights are the best early on, as they are faster than the barded Feudal, Order knights and general's bodyguards. The latter is particularly crucial as it means they can run down fleeing generals. Later on demi-lancers are decent alternatives for this function, trading a little defence for a little offence.

I often avoid feudals as, compared to mailed knights, they trade speed for a couple of points of defence. I might get them if Order knights are out of the question and my knights are going to face lots of melee, but I don't prioritise their recruitment or building upgrade. It is hard to have your faster cav in the right place at the right time, so it makes life easier to have your cavalry faster.

When you can get them, Order knights are the best for charging and for meleeing units that are not armoured in heavy mail/half plate or better. They are quite a step up from feudals (+3 charge, +2 primary attack , +3 secondary, +2 morale) I would say they are the best English cavalry overall. But I'd probably still want a unit or two of faster cavalry for pursuing generals and knights.

English knights are acceptable subsitutes for Order knights. They will be slightly better in a melee with heavily armoured opponents (armour would have to be 8 or maybe 7 if CA round AP bonus up). But have a weaker charge, lower morale and weaker secondary attack against lightly armoured foes.

If you are unconstrained, use Order knights for charging infantry; English knights for counter-charging enemy knights and mailed knight/demi-lancers for pursuing knights/generals.

[Doug-Thompson]

Ideally, you'd have English Knights holding the enemy in melee while demi-lancers charged, ran back and charged again.

It's a small point, but demi-lancers do cost 160 florins less to recruit than an English knight. Upkeep is the same, however.

=======

This next point is pure conjecture.

English Knights should suffer fewer losses from friendly fire than any other type. They have armor of 8, compared to 5 for a feudal knight. Demi-lancers have 7 armor but die in melee for lack of a shield. English Knights have a good shield value of 4.

Getting attacked in melee by axe-wielding knights who pin you down while an English longbow army pours it on doesn't sound like a situation I'd want to get into.

[DVX BELLORVM]

Having to much time on my hands, I organized a race for English cavalry across a whole length of a battlefield. This is the outcome:



The units, from left to right flank:

The faster group:
Hobilars
Merchant Cavalry Militia
Mailed Knights
Demi lancers

The slower group:
Feudal knights
English knights
Knights Hospitaller
General's bodyguard

I find a bit odd the fact that light cavalry Hobilars have the same speed as Mailed knights and Demi lancers, which are heavy cav.

[Doug-Thompson]

[quote] I find a bit odd the fact that light cavalry Hobilars have the same speed as Mailed knights and Demi lancers, which are heavy cav.[quote]

Hobliars are riding horses that were pulling hay carts the week before. The knights are riding better horses bred and trained for war.

[DVX BELLORVM]

Hobliars are riding horses that were pulling hay carts the week before. The knights are riding better horses bred and trained for war.

I guess you're right.

BTW, where can I find info on units' speed, secondary weapon type, and things like that?
This is very important for battlefield tactics, but I couldn't find it anywhere, not even in the excellent R'as al Ghul's spreadsheet.

[HoreTore]

I guess you're right.

BTW, where can I find info on units' speed, secondary weapon type, and things like that?
This is very important for battlefield tactics, but I couldn't find it anywhere, not even in the excellent R'as al Ghul's spreadsheet.

Well, you can look through the data files, or if you're lazy like the rest of us, you can use http://www.totalwar.co.kr/

[Doug-Thompson]

Well, you can look through the data files, or if you're lazy like the rest of us, you can use http://www.totalwar.co.kr/

Excellent guide, that one.

[Miracle]

R'as al Ghul's spreadsheet tells you speed but you have to match up mount types with their respective speeds first.

You should avoid getting English Knights because you should focus on archery, barracks and smith buildings instead.

Use Mailed Knights for the early and mid game then supplement them with Demi-Lancers later on. Use Feudal Knights only when you've run out of Mailed Knights, are short on cavalry and have cash to spare. Order Knights are worth building at all times but don't deploy them too far away from a chapter house, and never build chapter houses in castles (SS's guilds are better).

For England medium/heavy cavalry are useful for offensive battles when it's better to use swordsmen + cavalry instead of longbowmen + stakes.

[econ21]

I guess you're right.

BTW, where can I find info on units' speed, secondary weapon type, and things like that?
This is very important for battlefield tactics, but I couldn't find it anywhere, not even in the excellent R'as al Ghul's spreadsheet.

I like the FAUST (link in the FAQ stickied here) - it is presents the key stats in a very clear pdf. I referred to it to answer this topic - it told me all I needed to know except horse speeds. R'as al Ghul's data has those.

[DVX BELLORVM]

Thank you, folks! Those are excellent guides.