Quote Originally Posted by Didz
I'm confused, you obviously have a far more detailed understanding of how the game works than I do. I have no idea what EDU is for instance even though I read an attempt at explaining it in an earlier post.

The way I see it this whole issue is a matter if physic's. As you say any parabolic weapon weapon gains range when fired from height and loses it when fired at a target on higher ground. Thats why archers on high ground in the game fire farther than archers on low ground, so if we all accept that this is true what exactly is the issue?
Okay, I'll try to explain better. Two things governor the firing of a ranged unit: the type of projectile it fires, and the specifications for its weapon/skill with that weapon. The former is detailed in descr_projectiles.txt, and represents the physical limitations of a given projectile type. Detailed are its maximum firing angle, minimum firing angle, and velocity (can be an allowable range, or just a flat amount). This file is responsible for how projectiles behave w/ respect to physics.

The latter, however, is all detailed in the EDU - export_descr_unit.txt. Each unit has a stat_pri entry that details the following:

; stat_pri From left to right
; attack factor
; attack bonus factor if charging
; missile type fired (no if not a missile weapon type)
; range of missile
; amount of missile ammunition per man
; Weapon type = melee, thrown, missile, or siege_missile
; Tech type = simple, other, blade, archery or siege
; Damage type = piercing, blunt, slashing or fire. (I don't think this is used anymore)
; Sound type when weapon hits = none, knife, mace, axe, sword, or spear
; Optional. Name of effect to play when weapon fires
; Min delay between attacks (in 1/10th of a second)
; Skeleton compensation factor in melee. Should be 1

As you can see, one entry is "range of missile." In practice, it is this number, not the actual physical limitations of the projectile, that determine how far it is allowed to shoot, at least on flat ground.

The question, then, is how that limitation is applied when the units are NOT on flat ground. Various possibilities could limit the range to exactly the same amount, or various amounts more than the listed number in the EDU, depending how the game implements the calculation. It is that calculation, and the corresponding actual horizontal range of the unit when it is elevated, that we are trying to determine, because by definition that will tell us whether or not the unit is actually capable of firing further from a higher position. It may be the case that a raised unit is limited to the exact same range, the one listed in the EDU.

Or is the issue that you don't beleive the unit on high ground fires any farther than it would if it was on level ground?
You are correct that this is the primary thing in contention - whether or not the current firing rules allow an elevated unit to fire beyond the listed EDU "range of missile." That would be necessary to establish that height actually lengthens the range of a missile unit. OTOH I don't honestly believe anything about this issue right now. I am, however, inclined to challenge claims of "proof" if they in fact do not have sufficient evidence behind them to warrant the conclusions being drawn.

If so then we need to establish a simple test which places two identical missile units side by side but with one oat ground level and the other on high ground and advance an enemy unit at each and see if there is any difference in when the two units begin firing.

Perhaps the best way to do this would be to use a wall, one unit on the wall and another placed in line with it but on the ground. This would mean using the corner of a castle wall so that the ground level unit can be positioned on exactly the same frontage. It could either be run as two seperate tests on the same map and then screen shots compared or if your lucky run simulataneously using one enemy unit to attack both archer units.
That sounds like a great idea. The reason something like that isn't done already is probably that I enjoy such discussions as this a bit too much. Plus, I'm a mite lazy. The combination of the two means I have little ambition at this point for running such a test. If you decide to, let me know how it goes, I would love to see results. As much fun as this is, I believe we've soon wrung all the value out of this discussion, and I'm sure everyone is keen to hear a definitive answer.