total war 4

[diotavelli]

1) I never said the history of Asia, or anywhere else, was uninteresting.

2) Nor did I say it wasn't worth knowing.

I realise that and I didn't accuse of either of those things. I said that "if it's anyone's opinion" - not your opinion. I was making a point about Asian history, not about you - apologies if this was not clear.

However, I'm talking about making a videogame - which is primarily designed to entertain - not reading a book on history, which one might do if one is interested in history in general.

You write later of the history of the Indies in this period that you "you don't know much about it". That being the case, how can you know whether it could make an entertaining videogame? Again, I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, I really just don't understand how you can admit to ignorance about it but also suggest that it's unsuitable for the TW treatment. The two don't seem to add up.

As for the rest of your argument (sorry, I don't want to do 20 quotes again, but you'll know what I'm talking about), the bottom line is:

If you were head of CA/Sega and had to decide on the next TW title, putting your money into the project, would you go for Indies: Total War? Bearing in mind that it wouldn't just be for yourself because you find that region and period in history interesting - but you'd have to actually shift units and sell more than CIV 5, Fifa 2008 or whatever other stuff would be on the shelves.

Yes, I would. For the reasons I've given in several previous posts. The history of the period is fascinating - don't take my word for it: check for yourself.

The diversity of cultures, ethnic groups, religions, naval strengths, military strengths and economic strengths in the area was far greater than in Europe in either the Roman, medieval or Napoleonic periods. The Asian market is the biggest in the world and Western understanding and appreciation of the history and cultures of Asia is growing rapidly (Asian films, books and music are selling in greater and greater numbers, tourism in the area is growing, more Asian products are being bought, more people work for Asian companies, etc., etc.).

As head of CA/Sega, I could look at the market and think: "Hmm, a me-too product like a CIV or Fifa2008 rip-off, that will merely share an existing, defined market or a brand new product that will appeal to an enlarged market and have first mover advantage but work from the base of a successful brand?" Not a difficult decision, really.

Next, what exactly is this region famous for? I'll have to admit that I don't know much about its history in the Middle Ages, so you'll have to enlighten me. What factions would you have? What were the interesting troops? If the region was mainly noted for economic/social development, how would this translate into game features?

A few people (i.e., not just me) have written extensively about what the region is famous for. Try the development of gunpowder. Try the discovery and colonisation of Australia and the Americas years before Europeans. Try scientific and medical sophistication on a level the Europeans wouldn't match for centuries. Try a diversity of culture and religion that Europe has only known in the past century (following immigration from these very regions).

As for factions, here's Psiloi's list (which I don't believe is necessarily complete):

Burmans
Chinese (Southern Song wich follow the chinese dinasties, then Ming technology)
Dheli Sultanate (wich later change to Mughal empire)
Dravidians (wich include first Chola and then Vijayanagar)
Khemer
Koreans
Japanese
Mongols
Srivijaya
Thais
Viets

Non playables: Indigenous barbarians (Philippines, Taiwan, inner Borneo...), Jin China, Laosians, Rajputs, Tibetans, Timurids

There is a lot of options.

Would this game just be M2 with different factions and a different map (basically, the same thing a mod can do)? If not, what would be the major differences? What specific features (other than better graphics, "Get Off My Land" Diplomacy option etc.) would sell this specific area and this specific period in time - not only to Asia, but to the US and Europe? Or would the game, in fact, be aimed only at the Asian market? If so, would it really be able to compete with CIV, RON, AOE etc.?

This game would "be M2 with different factions and a different map (basically, the same thing a mod can do)" in the same way M2 is different from RTW and NTW would be different from M2.

NTW mods already exist, yet that doesn't mean CA couldn't create a brand new TW title set in the Napoleonic era. In the same way, just because an Indies mod could be created, that doesn't mean CA couldn't create a TW title dedicated to them.

Given that much of the map would be archipelagoes and that maritime trade was of greater significance, naval warfare and trade would benefit from improvement. Gunpowder and artillery developed far earlier in this part of the world, so they'd need to be better represented. Religion was more diverse and the propensity of different religions to co-exist and/or kick-seven-shades-of-sh*t out of each other would need to be reflected better. The list of new features that could be developed is enormous - just as big as for NTW, I would guess.

[In reality, the number of new features in either Indies:TW or NTW would be more to do with what CA could afford/manage to develop in time.]

Of course the game would not "be aimed only at the Asian market" - any more so than Shogun was only aimed at the Japanese market or Rome at the European market. That's quite a parochial suggestion, if you don't mind me saying so. Would you suggest that only Americans would want to play an American Civil War game? If not, why would you suggest only Asians would want to play an Indies:TW game? I don't see the logic.