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Thread: help me im a noob.

  1. #1

    Default help me im a noob.

    im a new player of this game, i.e. noob. im loving the turn based part of the game so far but i suck at the rts part, i.e. the battles. i almost always go for autoresolve. but it doesnt work out that well during late game. so basically im looking for some very very basic info on battles. you know, something to start with and then slowly work my way up with experience. i.e. which type of unit is strong against which type, so i can send the right type of unit to fight against the right type of enemy units. so far i know the following:

    cavalry are strong against missile units.
    spearmen are strong against cavalry
    but i dont know who the missile units, i.e. archers are strong against, or who are strong against spearmen. also, i dont know how the following units fit in this cycle: heavy infantry, light infantry, missile cavalry, dogs, etc. im guessing this game like most other RTSs have a paper scissor rock mechanism. just trying to understand the basics. thanks for any help.

  2. #2
    Illuminated Moderator Pogo Panic Champion, Graveyard Champion, Missle Attack Champion, Ninja Kid Champion, Pop-Up Killer Champion, Ratman Ralph Champion GeneralHankerchief's Avatar
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    Default Re: help me im a noob.

    cavalry are strong against missile units.
    spearmen are strong against cavalry


    Missile units are strong against anyone who they can hit from far range, providing that the units aren't well-armored.

    The general rule of thumb is:

    Swords beat spears
    Spears beat cavalry
    Cavalry beat swords

    The exception to this is the phalanx (any Greek unit's infantry). If you attack them from the front you will die. So find a unit to pin the phalanx and then flank them (hit them on the sides/rear) with cavalry or whatever.

    The most general strategy when lining troops up is the following:

    C C I I I I I I I C C
    A A A A
    G

    C = cavalry
    I = infantry
    A = archers/missile units
    G = general

    Hope this helps, and happy gaming!
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  3. #3

    Post Re: help me im a noob.

    Hi rocky_841,
    Generally:
    Light Infantry, are quite well rounded. They are, however, vulnerable to heavy infantry and heavy cavalry.
    Heavy Infantry are good against Light Infantry and Spearmen, but are weak against armour breaking units (such as axemen). They are also vulnerable to Missile Calvary.
    Spearmen are good against cavalry of all types, although are especially good against Light Cavalry.
    Phalanx Units are basically spearmen with the ability to lower their spears and create an impregnable breach. Usually anything, other than another phalanx unit, can get through the front wall, so it's best to nip round the back to nab them! These units are especially good cavalry killers on the front!
    Light Cavalry are good against missile cavalry. They are also pretty handy at running down fleeing foes! However, if captured in melee, they are often doomed.
    Heavy Cavalry are good against almost anything. They have their weaknesses against Spearmen, but, with a strong charge, only active with a good run up, they can easily send some lesser units fleeing with a single blow. You can use them to protect your flanks, the side of your army, from attack.
    Missile Cavalry are useful against all non-ranged units, but weak against Light Cavalry (who can run them down). You have to make sure that their missiles don't run out though - if caught in melee then they have guaranteed doom.
    Chariots
    , especially the non-missile types, are often not worth training. They are best used to the rear of units, but cannot survive very long in prolonged fighting.
    Elephants
    are, technically speaking, a special type of heavy cavalry - exceptionally good against most other units, especially other cavalry. They have a slight weakness to Spearmen, Javelinmen and Archers, but otherwise they are almost immortal. Sadly, however, they can run amok, making them uncontrollable, so be ready to to kill them if they do this by pressing their special ability button to exterminate them.
    Javelinmen are good against Elephants and most unarmoured light units. Don't let them get attacked hand to hand though - make sure they are protected by a heavier unit!
    Archers are good against most slower units, giving you time to attack, when fighting at a distance. However, fighting in melee with them is totally suicidal! If any unit gets too close to them they will be cut to pieces.
    Dogs are there mostly to chase routers! They also are a useful fear weapon so can be unleashed on nearly fleeing foes to get them to make their ultimate run! They are also pretty good at sending elephants amok. As a final positive regarding them, they are, if you keep the handlers out of trouble, self re-replenishing units - if all the dogs die and all the handlers are alive, all of your men will import fresh dogs ready to fight next turn.
    Burning Pigs are there to terrify enemies! They are also very good at forcing AI elephants to run amok through your enemies troops.
    Siege Engines are good against anything that doesn't begin a melee attack due to their very long range. Avoid getting the handlers into battle or attacked by ranged men.

    However, although this often is the case, certain units have their own weaknesses and strengths. Experimenting with them is often a very good idea to get to learn these variants.

    Hope this helps you, cheers!
    Last edited by Omanes Alexandrapolites; 06-14-2007 at 18:18.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: help me im a noob.

    Quote Originally Posted by rocky_841
    im a new player of this game, i.e. noob.
    Try reading frogbeastegg's guide to RTW in the Guides forum. It's very well written and has a wealth of information.

    Bear in mind, there are major differences in unit quality within a class. This makes RTW not quite a "rock-paper-scissors" game. For example, Roman equites and Legionary cavalry are both cavalry, but the latter are far superior. The unit stats tell you this, especially the attack stat compared to combined defence (defence skill + armour + shield). For cavalry, the charge stat can be added to the attack stat for the opening part of a proper charge. The purchase price is a reasonable indicator of effectiveness and the stronger units are higher up the tech trees.

    cavalry are strong against missile units.
    In RTW, cavalry are strong against almost everything (not elephants, I guess). But to be efficient, you have to use them right. This means:
    (a) use their mobility to charge into the rear or flanks of already engaged enemies
    (b) make sure you get a proper charge off - ie lances levelled. To do this, make sure they have a decent run up before they hit home. Order an attack at the last minute and they'll blunder into melee without a charge bonus.

    spearmen are strong against cavalry
    Cavalry should avoid charging stationary (braced) spears facing them. But it can be hard in RTW to use spears well against cavalry (too slow and not that deadly to them).

    A special kind of spear is the phalanx. While it should be good against cav, in my experience, under human control it excels at grinding down infantry frontally. If the AI has them, strike the phalanx flanks or rear, or shoot it to death.

    but i dont know who the missile units, i.e. archers are strong against,
    Archers kill anyone, but need protection to do it. Their fire also imposes useful morale penalties, softening up the enemy so they break first in an otherwise fair fight. In this game, the aim is not to kill the enemy where he stands, but to break his morale (where upon you can kill him with cavalry as he routs)

    or who are strong against spearmen.
    Archers can do it safely, if protected. "Swords" - e.g. legionnaires - are probably supposed to be the anti-spear unit.

    also, i dont know how the following units fit in this cycle: heavy infantry, light infantry, missile cavalry, dogs, etc.
    Heavy infantry include the swords and armour piercing units like axemen etc. They are good against most spears, good at storming walls etc. Theoretically weak against cavalry, if charged.

    I am not sure what light infantry is - maybe you mean javelin armed skirmishers? In RTW, they are like poor man's archers. In some mods like RTR and EB they are great.

    Missile cavalry is interesting - it's about as good as foot archers at shooting, but has cavalry's mobility. Probably best to use it to get around the rear of a unit (so they can't use their shields against your arrows). It is often fast enough to outrun most cavalry, so it can be used to disrupt and distract. It needs micromanagement but is arguably the most powerful unit type in a field battle.

    Dogs are ahistorical abominations that have no place on a battlefield, sorry going off on a rant. Dogs are like mini-cruise missiles - unleash them on the enemy from a distance and keep the handlers safe so they can rear fresh puppies for the next battle. In that, they are almost like archers - killing from a distance, without losing men themselves. They rip up lightly armoured infantry. They can be countered by heavy cavalry (esp. generals' bodyguards which are totally uber in RTW).

  5. #5
    Member Member Fwapper's Avatar
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    Default Re: help me im a noob.

    If you haven't already - play the prologue up to the first battle (not very far) it gives a basic taste of battle tactics. Also (and this one can be hard) pay attention to the advisor. And finally, just always try to pin an enemy unit with one of your units, then charge into it's rear or side with another of your units (cav are best of this.)

    Hope that helped, Fwapper.

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  6. #6
    Nur-ad-Din Forum Administrator TosaInu's Avatar
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    Default Re: help me im a noob.

    Hello rocky_841.
    Ja mata

    TosaInu

  7. #7

    Default Re: help me im a noob.

    thanks everyone for your help. some of it was very detailed but that also means it is hard to remember all of it. one other small question. if you have a lot of generals in your army, is it true that u dont need heavy cavalry on that army? i.e. do generals equal heavy cavalry. another question, if you are short on cash, which type of unit do you always try to have on your army b4 going to battle. i.e. what are the priorities. right now i almost always try to have a few generals with stars, then archers, then light infantry, then spearmen, then heavy infantry, and so forth. but wat is the right priority of building my army. also, wat should i try to have on my army to increase my chances of winning in an autoresolve battle. thanks.

  8. #8

    Post Re: help me im a noob.

    Yep rocky_841, Generals can replace Heavy Cavalry (technically speaking their units are highly elite heavy cavalry).

    I prefer to have the Infantry in the force first when playing as most factions, then Light/Heavy Cavalry (or Generals, although generals aren't too important - they only provide their bonuses if close to their men) and then, finally, archers/missile units.

    When composing your army structure, it's best to have units which can fight well in melee, such as infantry and cavalry, before trying to fight with units such as archers, which are exceptionally weak in this regard. You have to bear in mind that hand to hand fighting will make up most of the battle and the skirmish, with archers and similar missile units, will only take up a very small percentage of the time prior to the beginning of the true sword fights! On a final note, remember to keep your armies nice and varied - it provides a larger chance in battles.
    Last edited by Omanes Alexandrapolites; 06-15-2007 at 17:10.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: help me im a noob.

    Quote Originally Posted by rocky_841
    ...what are the priorities. right now i almost always try to have a few generals with stars, then archers, then light infantry, then spearmen, then heavy infantry, ....
    One general is a priority - they provide morale bonuses compared to captain-led armies and the generals get better if they lead an army. But you only need one for this - their stars only matter if they lead an army. Having multiple generals in a stack is fine - as Omanes said they are elite heavy cavalry. Aside from having great stats, they also have two hit points (twice as hard to kill) and regenerate some losses between battles. What I do is have one general per half stack and two per full stack (the second being a reserve leader).

    Beyond that your priorities may depend on the faction you are playing. Rome excels in heavy infantry so that would be first for me. Parthia excels in horse archers, so could even do without any infantry.

    If we are talking Romans, I think a core of 4+ heavy infantry is a good basis. They can handle most unit types. Historically, the core of a Roman army would be heavy infantry plus some lighter allies or auxiliaries.

    In game terms, against the AI, I often like 3+ archers as they can kill without loss. They are essential against horse archers.

    More cavalry is great for any faction, but historically it is rather unRoman, so I try to ration myself to a couple at most.

    Romans don't really need spears. In the game, the Roman heavy infantry can handle cavalry about as well as spears available to Rome.

    Pre-Marian Roman armies used a fair amount of light infantry, but in game terms they are not necessary.

    If we are talking generically - not just Romans - I would favour a balanced force. So don't prioritise one unit type, but get a little of each. Most unit types have a role and try to coordinate among the combined arms makes the battle more fun than relying on a one trick pony.

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