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Thread: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

  1. #1
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Ahhh, how I loathe the Howard Government, especially Tony Abbott...

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=273287

    Abbott suggests corporal punishment return
    Friday Jun 15 08:35 AEST
    Federal Health Minister Tony Abbott has suggested a return to corporal punishment to ensure discipline returns to schools.

    The comments came after Mr Abbott watched footage of a vicious attack on a Melbourne schoolgirl.

    The grainy vision from a mobile phone showed a teenage girl repeatedly kicked in the head and body by two other teenagers.

    Mr Abbott was alarmed by the footage and said it showed that current methods of discipline in schools were not working.

    "I mean, we've taken corporal punishment out of the schools because we think that's brutal and yet our playgrounds seem to be becoming more brutal than ever," the minister told the Nine Network.

    "Maybe a little bit more discipline in the schools would prevent some of the ugliness that we've just seen."

    Mr Abbott said it was a different situation in his day.

    "When I was a kid at school, if you got up to mischief you were punished, not severely, but never-the-less you were punished."

    Victoria Police have cautioned two teenage girls over the assault which took place last year in Melbourne's western suburbs.
    Yeah and while we are at it, lets bring back the NAZIs.

    Seriously, this sickens me. The idea that we should beat children to stop bullying is ridiculous. There are better ways to solve problems than to use violence to stop violence. That just leads to situations where the children resent and hate school.

    I can understand why he is saying this, I am not denying that there is violence in the playground, but seriously? Bringing back the cane?

    Also did anyone notice that this is Tony Abbott talking? Our minister of HEALTH, not our Education Minister.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

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    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    There were a lot less shootings in our public schools when teachers could beat that ass and have a little prayer in the morning. Coincidence? maybe, but kids knew who was in charge. BRING BACK THE WHACK!!!
    RIP Tosa

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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    I have no inherent objections to punishment of by and for corporals.





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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Coincidence? maybe, but kids knew who was in charge. BRING BACK THE WHACK!!!
    Especially now days when teachers need more than ever to be able to defend themselves. Its not like their torturing the kids. I always prefered a little smack than being sent to the principles office. My dad hit a lot harder.
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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Victoria Police have cautioned two teenage girls over the assault which took place last year in Melbourne's western suburbs.
    Gee, could that be it?
    *Smacks random Australian Government Authority*
    You think maybe the police should prosecute them?
    How can there be any doubt in Australia about this?
    You have a vicious attack, and it isn't even punished, and then we need more ruler whackings in school? Isn't the idea that those scum be prosecuted to the full extent of the law obvious?

    Crazed Rabbit
    Last edited by Crazed Rabbit; 06-15-2007 at 16:39. Reason: Italicizing
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    You have a vicious attack, and it isn't even punished, and then we need more ruler whackings in school? Isn't the idea that those scum be prosecuted to the full extent of the law obvious?
    One would think so, but our Governments have a track record of being incompetent.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

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    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
    There were a lot less shootings in our public schools when teachers could beat that ass and have a little prayer in the morning.
    Actually, no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
    Isn't the idea that those scum be prosecuted to the full extent of the law obvious?
    Not to Mr. Abbott, apparently.

  8. #8
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
    There were a lot less shootings in our public schools when teachers could beat that ass and have a little prayer in the morning. Coincidence? maybe, but kids knew who was in charge. BRING BACK THE WHACK!!!
    Just thought I would mention we have no prayers in schools and strict gun controls, as well as no corporal punishment... and we have very, very few school shootings. Usually those that occur are not from the students themselves.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    We definitely need corporal punishments back in schools. When students realise that there are painful consequences to their actions(not just getting suspended, which half of them couldn't care less about anyway), they will think more carefully about their actions and respect others, and most importantly, respect teachers.

    However, the main problem is the lack of discipline at home. With governments all over the place bring in "anti-smacking" laws, parents are basically stripped of their right to discipline their children. That is why levels of violence, particulary in young people is increasing; they have no respect for authority anymore.

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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    We definitely need corporal punishments back in schools. When students realise that there are painful consequences to their actions(not just getting suspended, which half of them couldn't care less about anyway), they will think more carefully about their actions and respect others, and most importantly, respect teachers.
    No, this breeds rebellion and contempt. Instead the root cause of the issue should be found and dealt with. I don't know what it is, but it as to be there. Hitting the children will not do anything.

    However, the main problem is the lack of discipline at home. With governments all over the place bring in "anti-smacking" laws, parents are basically stripped of their right to discipline their children. That is why levels of violence, particulary in young people is increasing; they have no respect for authority anymore.
    I agree with you on anti-smacking laws, but I find your dea that parents have a "right" to discipline their children to be really unusual. What gives them that right?
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

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    Oni Member Samurai Waki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Hows about instead of going off and blaming the School System or Parents for lack of Disciplining their kids. We just go and -ram the Perpetrators with a Felony Case, Charge them as an adult and send those mother 's to a "Civil Work Camp" for 6 mo. (and not Jail or anything to do with Prison...I mean tough, dirty, sweaty labour for 12 hours a day 7 days a week.)

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    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    In today's society there's definately a need for stricter policy towards teenagers, they can get away with just about anything in most countries, however, I don't think corporal punishment is the bast course of action.

    People who commit violent crimes, whether they be teenagers or adults, should be punished, perhaps not equally severely, but they should be. Teenagers should also be held accountable for 'jokes' such as claiming a teacher slept with him/her when it isn't true and various other things like that, they get away with too much now.
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    Viceroy of the Indian Empire Member Duke Malcolm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    A surprisingly swift comparison to the Nazis there. I would have expected it at least a few posts down.

    Anyhoo...

    I fully support the reintroduction of Corporal Punishment. My teachers at school thought that was a slightly extreme view, but each year I presented the proposal in some form or another...
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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    A surprisingly swift comparison to the Nazis there. I would have expected it at least a few posts down.
    Thought I'd get in early and beat the rush
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    No, this breeds rebellion and contempt. Instead the root cause of the issue should be found and dealt with. I don't know what it is, but it as to be there. Hitting the children will not do anything.
    More liberal clap trap. Its worked for thousands of years. You didnt see the Spartans rebelling You dont hit them so hard as to damage them. For most kids realizing they pissed you off enough to make you strike them is enough. Like my father after a while just the 'LOOK" is enough to get your children moving. Ut oh we pissed dad off. Nothing works better with the really young. You cant reason with them if they dont understand english or life very well. If they go to run in the street you give them a little tap on the butt and say no.
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    I somewhat agree with the idea of bringing corporal punishment. My 5th grade teacher was a retired boxer (don't ask). Trust me, he knew how to keep order in his class. And he didn't actually hit anybody, he would just manhandle you, or 'shake you up' as he called it. It was quite effective.

    Gawain's right. The kid needs to know he's not in charge of the situation. Not knowing what's coming next is far worse. If they just sit there and tell themselves "all i have to do is listen to them mouth off", they won't respond, they'll just wait for you to run out of breath. Suspension doesn't work, as that's what they want in the first place.

    I also believe in bringing back truancy officers. If we find your kid roaming the street, we bring him to your workplace and you get a fine.

    But any corporal punishment will require a change to the legal system. Right now, I can already hear the trial attorneys drooling on themselves, waiting to get their hands on the first teacher that so much as speaks crossly, let alone actually whacks one of the kids.

    This is why, by the way, Catholic schools do so much better in terms of behavior. Parents have to sign a waver on the way in. A few quick snaps with Sister Priscilla's steel ruler was all it took for me to figure out how to keep my mouth shut for 50 minutes at a time. It hurt!
    Last edited by Don Corleone; 06-15-2007 at 15:16.
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    A few quick snaps with Sister Priscilla's steel ruler was all it took for me to figure out how to keep my mouth shut for 50 minutes at a time. It hurt!
    You got that right. No lack of discipline when the Nuns are in charge. Man did that sting.
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Corproal punsihment for teenagers is sort of useless. Think about it they have never been hit before and there probably bigger and stronger than the person doing the hitting. Dads "look" only works if you you were hit when you were younger. Although in Texas these kids would probably be tried as a adults.
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Corproal punsihment for teenagers is sort of useless. Think about it they have never been hit before and there probably bigger and stronger than the person doing the hitting.
    Most of those I remember in regular school administering corporal punishment were either gym teachers or shop teachers. All of them were big men And if you go to Catholic school it wont take you long to learn What are you going to do punch out the Nun?
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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Corporal punishment? Teachers are pretty fearful here of even grabbing an annoying pupil by the arm, because they'll tell their parents the teacher's been touching them in "inappropriate places" - parents complain, teacher gets sacked.

    The obvious answer is to reintroduce corporal punishment, but only if they use the yardstick.

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Most of those I remember in regular school administering corporal punishment were either gym teachers or shop teachers. All of them were big men And if you go to Catholic school it wont take you long to learn What are you going to do punch out the Nun?
    Im just saying if its just getting introduced when there my age its going to cuase more problems than it solves
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Im just saying if its just getting introduced when there my age its going to cuase more problems than it solves
    Well one would certainly expect you to hold that position. By the time one is a teenager hopefully corporal punishment isnt needed. I got it more often than most as I was the class clown always pulling pranks. I loved how they punished you by making you deliver supplies during study hall. It was like making you instantly cool. You went from classroom to classroom and everyone knew you were a bad boy I loved it. You even got to use the elevator.
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    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Well one would certainly expect you to hold that position. By the time one is a teenager hopefully corporal punishment isnt needed. I got it more often than most as I was the class clown always pulling pranks. I loved how they punished you by making you deliver supplies during study hall. It was like making you instantly cool. You went from classroom to classroom and everyone knew you were a bad boy I loved it. You even got to use the elevator.
    Odd, I never associated you with being a clown
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Odd, I never associated you with being a clown
    Yeah right. Very subtle.

    It seems much of my humor is lost in the printed word. Im sort of like Don Rickles in my sense of humor.

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    I figure a little humor never hurts.
    Last edited by Gawain of Orkeny; 06-15-2007 at 21:17.
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    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    More liberal clap trap. Its worked for thousands of years. You didnt see the Spartans rebelling
    Oh, of course not. They were too scared of the Helots that were always rebelling. Granted it's an extreme version of "corporal punishment" but you brought it up so...

    I mean, sure, kids wouldn't really take the revenge on the system when they can just take it out terrorizing the enslaved populace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    Gawain's right. The kid needs to know he's not in charge of the situation. Not knowing what's coming next is far worse. If they just sit there and tell themselves "all i have to do is listen to them mouth off", they won't respond, they'll just wait for you to run out of breath. Suspension doesn't work, as that's what they want in the first place.
    There's a lot more ways to establish discipline than the stick. Face it, that's just an easy way out; it can be effective and it can be just plain crude, complete with backfiring results.

    Those "back in the day" arguments have many caveats. How much has American education system changed since corporal punishment was an integral part of school? Why was it effective then -- heck, was it truly effective then? Will it be now, with different nuances and different situations?

    It's oversimplifying to say the stick will bring the kids "back in line" when society itself moves so far away from those days long gone, with whole new values (annoying liberal values to some) and whole new outlooks.

    The kids in the OP in question don't need corporal punishment anyway. They need to be prosecuted.
    Last edited by AntiochusIII; 06-15-2007 at 21:05.

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    Philologist Senior Member ajaxfetish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach
    I agree with you on anti-smacking laws, but I find your dea that parents have a "right" to discipline their children to be really unusual. What gives them that right?
    The right to discipline is attached to the responsibility to raise. If parents weren't expected to feed, clothe, educate, etc. their children, they wouldn't have the right to discipline them either.

    Anyhow, if we bring back corporal punishment, we'll just be desensitizing the poor kids to violence. Next thing you know they'll start bringing their own rulers to school, and there'll be no way to stop the downward spiral. We must protect children from reality if they are to grow up into decent, functional adults.

    Ajax

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    There's a lot more ways to establish discipline than the stick. Face it, that's just an easy way out; it can be effective and it can be just plain crude, complete with backfiring results.
    Well dont use just plain crude punishment. You have to use your brain as well not just mindless violence. All animlas do this. Watch a mother cat or dog with their babies.
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by ajaxfetish
    Anyhow, if we bring back corporal punishment, we'll just be desensitizing the poor kids to violence. Next thing you know they'll start bringing their own rulers to school, and there'll be no way to stop the downward spiral. We must protect children from reality if they are to grow up into decent, functional adults.
    Ajax

    Well said, Ajax!
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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by ajaxfetish
    Anyhow, if we bring back corporal punishment, we'll just be desensitizing the poor kids to violence. Next thing you know they'll start bringing their own rulers to school, and there'll be no way to stop the downward spiral. We must protect children from reality if they are to grow up into decent, functional adults.
    Do you get hit with rulers everday?
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Return to Corporal Punishment in Australian Schools?

    I agree with Strike, I can already think of 20 ways to make it backfire, non of those violent,
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