Numidians !!!

[Ludens]

I don't think that Sabens has in history a mayor expansionism than Numidia, and with Numidia is possible more unit because in this case we have many historical resource, instead with Saba we have a lack of historical source.
(...)
But for me numidia is more relevant in general for mediterranean-europe-east threaty.

What Watchman and I are trying to say is that Numidia didn't manage any expansion at all. The Sabeans on the other hand were quite prominent in Arabia, and may have invaded Kush as well. You are right when you say that we know little about them, but that doesn't mean they were unimportant. EB strives to portray the entire map accurately, so factions are not included based on how much they affected the Mediteranean area. They are included based on how much the affected the area they inhabited. Sabea had little to no contact with Rome, and nor did the Saka and the Bactrians, but all three were major players in their part of the world. This never applied to the Numidians, who were always dominated by Carthage or Rome (except when the managed to occasional rebellion against them).

Hmmm, but without Numidia Carthage is too strong, we lose something and gained in other hand

There's more ways of weakening a faction than by planting a rival in their backyard. Anyway, in my campaigns Carthage's performance was always somewhat lackluster, so I don't see why you think they are too strong.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

We certainly aren't announcing what factions will be in EB2 yet, but the Numidians present some very attractive possibilities. Thanks for posting Juba2 - good to have you on the forum here. I certainly have been looking at some potential unique buildings in the region - for EB1 or EB2. Some will appear in the future at some point for sure. More work will be focused on North African regional units also for EB1 even, but our main man on this just left for Jordan for a couple of months. Some of the work will hopefully make its way to the board and preview threads before much longer though.

[Juba2]

thank you all for your answers and posts

and yeah even tough Numidians did not expand much because of numerous reasons but they played an important role in the Area

I'm also under the impression that while the Numidians did have kings and such, there was most of the time a lot of those and they duly were neither very powerful nor influential - while the more powerful ones in turn were more often than not allied to first the Carthaginians and later the Romans who dominated the prosperous coastal regions, supplying troops in exchange of support and wealth. Not a very politically stable and coherent bunch in other words, even by the standards of tribal confederations.

How so ? the numidian kings challenged both Carthaginian might and roman one and they had 1 major king at a time not like some tribal leaders had Numidians were not Nomadic people they had their own culture and civilization .

have u ever heard of the Numidian Pyramid

and yeah btw there might be a confusion if ur looking for the area history because there is the people Amazighs and their many names refered to their location and kingdoms for example Numidians/Berbers/Libyans/... and u people need to know that intill this instance we still use the ancient language here in north morocco we all speak it here with many accents .

We certainly aren't announcing what factions will be in EB2 yet, but the Numidians present some very attractive possibilities. Thanks for posting Juba2 - good to have you on the forum here. I certainly have been looking at some potential unique buildings in the region - for EB1 or EB2. Some will appear in the future at some point for sure. More work will be focused on North African regional units also for EB1 even, but our main man on this just left for Jordan for a couple of months. Some of the work will hopefully make its way to the board and preview threads before much longer though.

great to hear from you man and thank you for ur welcome and yeah i wish u all best for upcoming projects it would be cool if Numidians are included

but tell me even if EB2 is for MTW it will present the roman era history like EB1 or The Middle ages era ???

PS: my English ^^ tell me about it .

[Thaatu]

have u ever heard of the Numidian Pyramid

Goddammit! First the Egyptians, then Babylonians, Nubians, Meso- and south-Americans, the bleeping Bosnians, and now you're telling me there's a Numidian pyramid? Pyramids are losing their credibility. When I was a kid, I was told pyramids were an Egyptian thing... Then I saw Las Vegas. At that point I also stopped believing in Santa Claus.

Edit: Oh yes, welcome Juba2! They hand out free pot here, as long as you know who to ask (try Watchman).

[Wolfman]

Yes welcome Juba2! It's good to see another numidian fan.

[Juba2]

Goddammit! First the Egyptians, then Babylonians, Nubians, Meso- and south-Americans, the bleeping Bosnians, and now you're telling me there's a Numidian pyramid? Pyramids are losing their credibility. When I was a kid, I was told pyramids were an Egyptian thing... Then I saw Las Vegas. At that point I also stopped believing in Santa Claus.

Edit: Oh yes, welcome Juba2! They hand out free pot here, as long as you know who to ask (try Watchman).

Terve and yeah Numidians had their own pyramids and here is something from wikipedia

Ancient Berber Tombs

The tombs of the early Berbers and their ancestors indicate that the Berbers and their ancestors (the Ibero-maurussians and Capsians) believed in life after death. The prehistoric men of northwest Africa buried bodies in little holes. When they realized that bodies buried in unsecured holes were dug up by wild animals, they began to bury them in deeper ones. Later, they buried the dead in caves, tumuli, tombs in rocks, mounds, and other types of tombs.[6]

These tombs evolved from primitive structures to much more elaborate ones, such as the pyramidal tombs spread throughout Northern Africa. The honor of being buried in such a tomb appears to have been reserved for those who were most important to their communities.

These pyramid tombs have attracted the attention of some scholars, such as Mohammed Chafik who wrote a book discussing the history of several of the tombs that have survived into modern times. He tried to relate the pyramidal Berber tombs with the great Egyptian pyramids on the basis of the etymological and historical data . The bestknown Berber pyramids are the 19-meter pre-Roman Numidian pyramid of Medracen and the 30-meter ancient Mauretanian pyramid. The Mauretanian pyramid is also known as the tomb of Christian woman..

The pyramid of Medracen

Yes welcome Juba2! It's good to see another numidian fan.

Great to meet you Wolfman25 and im glad that u are Numidian Fan and yes im Numidian fan maybe cuz i have numidian blood in my veins

[Watchman]

How so ? the numidian kings challenged both Carthaginian might and roman one and they had 1 major king at a time not like some tribal leaders had Numidians were not Nomadic people they had their own culture and civilization .

"Challenged" as in "were a deterrent to expansion" and "rebelled against", if I'm not entirely mistaken. Which by itself is basic Eleutheroi stuff.

As for one major king, styling yourself one and actually being one aren't always quite the same thing - and in any case, the same argument can be put forth for quite a few realms, groups etc. that by necessity fall under the Eleutheroi.

And since when was nomadism incompatible with "culture and civilization" anyway ? Moustachioed and bowlegged steppe-dwellers make rude gestures in your aunt's general direction for such slurs !

have u ever heard of the Numidian Pyramid

Impressive funerary buildings and other such works are not terribly unusual or meningful in the context by themselves; Europe and the Mediterranean region are full of that kind of stuff dating quite far back in some cases, the nomads of the Pontic steppe often buried their kings under huge mounds, etc.

[Geoffrey S]

Juba2, you keep referring to 'Numidian' and 'expansion' as if the various Numidian peoples were a unified front; in fact, the situation was entirely different. Except for very rare occasions there were a number of smaller kingdoms rather than a single kingdom. Certainly they were expansionist, but purely amongst each other. All in all, other than in opposition to local empires they had little influence on the flow of history, whereas (to cite your examples) the Saka played a major role in the east against the Indo-Greeks, and Saba was a commercial hub of major importance for trade between Egypt and India and was an expansionist power in the region in its own right.

However, I don't deny that a Numidian kingdom would be great as a new faction in EB2. But I do believe that, considering the constraints on faction slots in RTW, that the current factions had a greater impact on the history of the area depicted in EB and are more necessary to include.

[Juba2]

hi there

yes i do understand what u saying about numidians but they did play an important role during the Era take the Numidian cavalry and how they granted Hannibal brilliant victories against the Romans and they fought the Carthaginians as well besieging their most important cities and even helped the Romans against Carthage later and yeah i hope they'll be included in EB2 .