Give the Beatles their due

[Reverend Joe]

Again, I find that the vast majority of the pints stated in your article are either purely opinion or detrimental to music and society as a whole.

For example:

Social/Cultural

- appearance: most visibly, introduce fashion of long hair through "Beatle haircut" (made obligatory)
- attitude: make it fashionable to be cute, smart, irreverent, eclectic, chic, cultured etc.

I despise most people like this. And I have very short hair (I cut it with a 3/8" comb.)

- overall, Beatles convey attitude: "Be yourself, don't let anybody tell you how to run your life"

The Beatniks started this, and they were most responsible for spreading it as a phenomenon, not the Beatles.

- renders much of existing USA RnR (esp Rockabilly, Phil. Mach., doo wop, pre-Motown girl groups, etc) out of style during initial introduction in 1964
- intense appeal of music revives bland/stultified pop market, success set up environment for British Invasion
- lay foundation for "arena rock," with their 1965 performance in Shea Stadium (NYC) entertaining 55,000 fans, demonstrating their intense appeal

None of this could possibly considered "good", especially the loss of rockabilly; in fact, it could be said that Creedence reversed the damage done by the Beatles. As for the psychedelic movement, I would argue it was more fueled by the effects of LSD and marijuana upon the Rock/Rockabilly culture and the general "outsider" culture than any Beatles music.

- Beatles helped set in motion a maturation process for RnR, ultimately ending with their contribution for establishing "Rock" by proving that RnR could be conduit for significant message re culture/society: in process they expanded to embrace topics and musical style formerly excluded from RnR genre
- expansion in full bloom on Revolver '66: "Taxman"--protest about rapacious taxation by UK govt, "Eleanor Rigby"-- reflecting on emptiness of life and religious ritual, melody set to string quartet (no trad. rock insts), "Love To You"-- introduction of subcontinent Indian musical style (raga) and instruments (tabla and sitar), "Tomorrow Never Knows"-- Lennon advocation for opening one's mind to new experience, exploiting technical innovations (see technical)

This already existed as far back as Woody Gutherie, not to mention the slave spirituals; it would have appeared anyway, regardless of the Beatles.

sets trend for bands establishing and maintaining artistic control over their music:
- inaugurate era of "self-contained" band (inspiring thousands to pick up guitars and imitate them)
- help to reestablish trend that artists compose songs for themselves: bands now expected (by fans) to create own material; redirects song-writing trend away from centralized, production-line, professional song-writing concept indicative of Brill Bldg
- set trend for bands to record their music themselves
- in all, establishing many aspects of "DIY" trend, which becomes measure of authority

First actual positive point I have seen so far. However, many, if not most, of my favorite artists did not write their own material, and I think it is foolish to think that artists should create all original material. Again, look at Creedence:
an excellent band, but much of their best material (Suzy Q, Ninety nine and a Half, Midnight Special, The Night Time is the Right Time, Heard It Through the Grapevine) was not original.

- seen as pushing Beatle creativity into realm of classical music: Pepper's songs now contain stylistic diversity and artistic sophistication to be considered equivalent to Romantic "art-song" and album equivalent to Romantic "song cycle" by Schubert, Schumann, Wolf, etc

An incredibly pompous attempt to inflate the Beatles to proportions to which they are undeserving.

- seen as early pioneers of music video with promotional film for "SFF", also sections of HDN

Music videos were the worst thing to ever happen to music.

- begin to create exclusively in studio (retire from touring in 12/66)
- first successful band to do so, set trend for future bands
- pioneer new techniques to maintain creative/innovative musical style
- begin to rely on creativity of studio technicians/producer:

I stand corrected. THIS was the worst thing to ever happen to music. When musicians began to rely on artificiality and studio sound, music took a turn for the worse.

I cannot, and will not, go on, because I am much to drunk and contentious to contribute anything further. but rest assured: I have my reasons for disliking the Beatles.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

And yes I know sales dont count but look at this

The Beatles record sales, worldwide charts
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The following is a list of The Beatles' record sales and worldwide chart figures:



Record sales

* During the week of April 4, 1964 The Beatles occupied the first five slots of the Billboard Hot 100, #1 - "Can't Buy Me Love," #2 - "Twist and Shout," #3 - "She Loves You," #4 - "I Want to Hold Your Hand" and #5 - "Please Please Me," the only group in rock and roll history to achieve this feat. That same week they also had another seven charting records in the Hot 100: "I Saw Her Standing There", 31; "From Me to You", 41; "Do You Want to Know a Secret?", 46; "All My Loving", 58; "You Can't Do That", 65; "Roll Over Beethoven", 68. The Beatles had twelve songs on the charts that week, a feat never matched before or since.

* In 1964, the Beatles had the never-matched total of 15 American million-selling records (9 singles and 6 LPs), representing US sales of over 25 million in 1964 alone.

* "I Want To Hold Your Hand" sold nearly 5 million records in the US by 1968, making it the best selling single of the 1960s (from a Capitol Records Press release, September 9, 1968).

* When "Can’t Buy Me Love" was released in the US on March 16, 1964, it sold 940,225 copies on the first day, shattering all previous sales records. The single went on to sell over 3 million by the end of the year (Spizer, Bruce, 2000: The Beatles’ Story on Capitol Records, Part One: Beatlemania & The Singles, p. 36).

* The motion picture soundtrack "A Hard Day’s Night" sold 1 million copies in the first four days of its US release making it one of the fastest selling LPs of the 1960s (Billboard article, July 11, 1964).

* By August 1964, the Beatles had sold approximately 80 million records globally (Variety 235, August 12, 1964).

* By February 1965, their global sales had moved beyond 100 million records (Variety 237, February 3, 1965).

* Rubber Soul sold 1.2 million copies in the US during the first 9 days of its release (Billboard article, January 1, 1966).

* By August 1966, the Beatles had sold 150 million records worldwide (Variety 243, August 3, 1966).

* By May 1967, the Beatles’ global gross stood at $98 million (Variety 246, May 19, 1967).

* The "Hey Jude" single had sold over 3 million copies in America in its first 2 months of release, and 3.7 million by mid-January 1969. It eventually sold over 4 million copies and was the fourth best-selling single of the 1960s (Spizer, Bruce, 2003: The Beatles on Apple Records, p. 32).

* Although it carried a list price of $11.79, their double album The Beatles sold 1.1 million units during its first two weeks on sale; a record for any double album up to that point in time (Spizer, Bruce, 2003: The Beatles on Apple Records, p. 102).

* "Abbey Road" sold over 3 million copies in the US in a little over a month, making it one of the best-selling LPs of the 1960s despite having been on sale for only the last three months of the decade (Spizer, Bruce, 2003: The Beatles on Apple Records, p. 164).

* According to the Guinness Book of Records, the Beatles had topped worldwide sales of 300 million units by 1969.

* The "Let It Be" LP reportedly shipped 3.2 million copies in 13 days representing a gross retail value of nearly $26 million (Billboard article, June 6, 1970).

* By October 1972, the Beatles’ worldwide sales total stood at 545 million units.



It should be noted that the UWC only has charts available from 1966-1967, 1976-1977, 1986-1987, and 1996-present. [3]][4][5][6]

Britain

* Most no. 1 albums in the British albums charts (15 no. 1s).
o Please Please Me (1963, 30 weeks), With the Beatles (1963, 21 weeks), A Hard Day's Night (1964, 21 weeks), Beatles for Sale (1964, 10 weeks), Help! (1965, 9 weeks), Rubber Soul (1965, 9 weeks), Revolver (1966, 7 weeks), Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (1967, 27 weeks), The Beatles (The White Album) (1968, 8 weeks), Abbey Road (1969, 17 weeks), Let It Be (1970, 3 weeks), The Beatles at the Hollywood Bowl (1977, 1 week), Live at the BBC (1994, 1 week), Anthology 2 (1996, 1 week), 1 (2000, 9 weeks)
* Group with most no. 1 hits in the British singles chart (17 no. 1 hits).
o "From Me to You" (1963, 7 weeks), "She Loves You" (1963, 6 weeks), "I Want to Hold Your Hand" (1963, 5 weeks), "Can't Buy Me Love" (1964, 3 weeks), "A Hard Day's Night" (1964, 3 weeks), "I Feel Fine" (1964, 5 weeks), "Ticket to Ride" (1965, 3 weeks), "Help!" (1965, 3 weeks), "We Can Work It Out"/"Day Tripper" (1965, 5 weeks), "Paperback Writer" (1966, 2 weeks), "Yellow Submarine"/"Eleanor Rigby" (1966, 4 weeks), "All You Need Is Love" (1967, 3 weeks), "Hello, Goodbye" (1967, 7 weeks), "Lady Madonna" (1968, 2 weeks), "Hey Jude" (1968, 2 weeks), "Get Back" (1969, 6 weeks), "The Ballad of John and Yoko" (1969, 3 weeks)
* Group with most weeks in the British singles chart (456 weeks).
* Group with most weeks at no. 1 in the British singles chart (69 weeks).
* Group with most top 10 hits in the British singles chart (28 top 10 hits).
o "Please Please Me" (1963, #2), "Penny Lane"/"Strawberry Fields Forever" (1967, #2), Magical Mystery Tour EP (1967, #2), "Something"/"Come Together" (1969, #4), "Let It Be" (1970, #2), "Yesterday" (1976, #8), "The Beatles Movie Medley" (1982, #10), "Love Me Do" [re-entry] (1982, #4), "Baby It's You" (1995, #7), "Free as a Bird" (1995, #2), "Real Love" (1996, #4)
* Most weeks at no. 1 in the British albums chart (174 weeks at no. 1).
* Most consecutive weeks spent at no. 1 in the UK albums chart (51 weeks from May 11, 1963 to May 2, 1964 – this excludes soundtrack albums).
* Most consecutive no. 1 hits in the British singles chart (11 consecutive no. 1 hits, excludes re-issues of old singles).
* Most consecutive top 5 hits in the British singles chart (22 consecutive top 5 hits from 1963 to 1970).
* Most complete ever domination of the British charts by occupying the first two positions in the singles chart and the albums chart as well as the top 3 positions in the EP chart (Extended Play) from December 12 to December 26, 1963.
* Most weeks at no. 1 in the British albums chart within a calendar year (40 weeks at no. 1, 1964).
* Most no. 1 albums in the British albums chart within a calendar year (3 no. 1 albums, 1965).
* Most simultaneous weeks at no. 1 in the British singles and albums chart (45 weeks).
* First act to replace itself at the no. 1 position in the British singles charts (December 12, 1963).
* First act to replace itself at the no. 1 position in the British albums chart (December 7, 1963).
* The Beatles’ Please Please Me album spent more weeks at no. 1 in the British album charts than any other album by a group (30 weeks at no. 1, this excludes albums by duos and soundtracks).
* Most debuts at no. 1 in the British albums chart (8 no. 1 debuts, record shared with David Bowie)
* Group with the most consecutive weeks inside the British singles chart (105 consecutive weeks, from October 11, 1962 to October 15, 1964).
* Group with most single hits charted in the British singles chart simultaneously (6 hits on April 17, 1976).
* Biggest ever jump within the British albums chart (94 positions jumped by Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band from no. 97 to no. 3 in 1987).
* Most consecutive weeks inside the top 10 of the British albums chart (171 consecutive weeks from 1963 to 1966).

[edit] America

* Most no. 1 singles in the Billboard Hot 100 charts (20 no.1s).
o "I Want to Hold Your Hand" (1964, 7 weeks), "She Loves You" (1964, 2 weeks), "Can't Buy Me Love" (1964, 5 weeks), "Love Me Do" (1964, 1 week), "A Hard Day's Night" (1964, 2 weeks), "I Feel Fine" (1964, 3 weeks), "Eight Days a Week" (1965, 2 weeks), "Ticket to Ride" (1965, 1 week), "Help!" (1965, 3 weeks), "Yesterday" (1965, 4 weeks), "We Can Work It Out" (1965, 3 weeks), "Paperback Writer" (1966, 2 weeks), "Penny Lane" (1967, 1 week), "All You Need Is Love" (1967, 1 week), "Hello, Goodbye" (1967, 3 weeks), "Hey Jude" (1968, 9 weeks), "Get Back" (1969, 5 weeks), "Come Together"/"Something" (1969, 1 week), "Let It Be" (1970, 2 weeks), "The Long and Winding Road" (1970, 2 weeks)
* Most no. 1 albums in the Billboard Top 200 albums charts (19 no.1 albums).
o Meet the Beatles! (1964, 11 weeks), The Beatles' Second Album (1964, 5 weeks), A Hard Day's Night (1964, 14 weeks), Beatles '65 (1965, 9 weeks), Beatles VI (1965, 6 weeks), Help! (1965, 9 weeks), Rubber Soul (1965, 6 weeks), Yesterday...and Today (1966, 5 weeks), Revolver (1966, 6 weeks), Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (1967, 15 weeks), Magical Mystery Tour (1967, 8 weeks), The Beatles (The White Album) (1969, 9 weeks), Abbey Road (1969, 11 weeks), Let It Be (1970, 4 weeks), 1967-1970 (The Blue Album) (1973, 1 week), Anthology 1 (1995, 3 weeks), Anthology 2 (1996, 1 week), Anthology 3 (1996, 1 week), 1 (2000, 8 weeks)
* Most 2-sided charted singles in the Billboard Hot 100 charts (26 singles, including two double-sided #1 hits, although "For You Blue" (B-side of "The Long And Winding Road") accompanied its A-side and did not chart on its own)
* Most weeks at no. 1 in the Billboard albums chart (132 weeks at no. 1).
* Group with most weeks in the Billboard albums chart (2,184 weeks, second only to Frank Sinatra with 2,211 weeks).
* Group with most weeks in the Billboard Hot 100 chart (609 weeks).
* Group with most weeks at no. 1 in the Billboard Hot 100 chart (59 weeks at no. 1).
* Most songs inside the Billboard Hot 100 at the same time (14 songs on April 11, 1964).
* Most songs inside the Billboard Top 40 at the same time (7 songs on April 11 and 25, 1964).
* Most songs in the Billboard Top 10 at the same time (5 songs on April 4, 1964).
* Most songs in the Billboard Top 5 at the same time (5 songs on April 4, 1964).
* Most chart entries in the Billboard Hot 100 within a calendar year (30 charted songs in 1964)
* The only group to replace themselves at no. 1 in the Billboard Hot 100 twice (March 21 and April 4, 1964). It would be forty years later when Usher would tie the record.
* Most complete ever domination of the Billboard Hot 100 singles and albums chart by occupying the first 5 positions in the Hot 100 as well as the first two in the albums chart simultaneously (April 4, 1964).
* Most consecutive no. 1 albums in the Billboard albums chart (8 consecutive no. 1 albums from 1965 to 1968).
* Most consecutive top 5 albums in the Billboard albums chart (16 consecutive top 5 albums from 1965 to 1977).
* Group with the longest span of no. 1 albums in the Billboard albums chart (36 years and 51 weeks, 1964 to 2001).
* Group with most consecutive no. 1 hits in the Billboard Hot 100 (6 consecutive no. 1 hits, record shared with the Bee Gees).
* Most no. 1 albums in the Billboard albums chart in a calendar year (3 no. 1 albums in 1964, repeated in 1965 and 1966).
* Most no. 1 singles in the Billboard Hot 100 in a calendar year (6 no. 1 singles in 1964)
* The only act to have held the no. 1 and no. 2 position in the Billboard albums chart for 9 straight weeks on two separate occasions (March 2 to April 27 and August 29 to October 24, 1964).
* Most top 3 albums in the Billboard albums chart (27 top 3 albums).
* Most transatlantic no. 1 hit singles (13 songs reached no. 1 in both the U.S. and Britain).
o "She Loves You," "I Want to Hold Your Hand," "Can't Buy Me Love," "A Hard Day's Night," "I Feel Fine," "Ticket to Ride," "Help!," "We Can Work It Out," "Paperback Writer," "All You Need Is Love," "Hello, Goodbye," "Hey Jude," "Get Back"
* Group with most consecutive top 5 hits in the Billboard Hot 100 chart (17 consecutive top 5 hits from 1964 to 1969).
* Group with most consecutive top 10 hits in the Billboard Hot 100 chart (24 consecutive top 10 hits from 1964 to 1976).
* Group with most consecutive top 20 hits in the Billboard Hot 100 chart (27 consecutive top 20 hits from 1964 to 1976).
* On April 4, 1964, the Beatles occupied the first 5 positions in the Billboard Hot 100 singles chart, the top 2 in the Billboard albums chart, the no. 1 position in the British singles chart, the first two positions in the British albums chart and the no. 1 position in the British EP chart, making this the most complete ever domination of the British and American charts in history.
* Most no. 1 singles in the Cash Box Top 100 charts (22 no.1s).
* Most no. 1 albums in the Cash Box albums charts (15 no.1 albums).
* Most weeks at no. 1 in the Cash Box albums chart (127 weeks at no. 1).
* Group with most weeks in the Cash Box albums chart (722 weeks up to 1974).
* Group with most weeks in the Cash Box singles chart (601 weeks up to 1986).
* Group with most weeks in the Record World albums chart (849 weeks up to 1982).
* Group with most weeks in the Record World singles chart (520 weeks up to 1980).
* Most no. 1 singles in the Record World Top 100 charts (23 no.1s).
* Most no. 1 albums in the Record World albums charts (17 no.1 albums).
* Most weeks at no. 1 in the Record World albums chart (123 weeks at no. 1).

[edit] Other countries

* Most no. 1 hits in the German singles chart (12 no. 1s).
o "I Want to Hold Your Hand" (1964), "Paperback Writer" (1966), "Yellow Submarine"/"Eleanor Rigby" (1966), "Penny Lane"/"Strawberry Fields Forever" (1967), "All You Need Is Love" (1967), "Hello, Goodbye" (1967), "Hey Jude" (1968), "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da" (1969), "Get Back" (1969), "The Ballad of John and Yoko" (1969), "Something"/"Come Together" (1969), "Let It Be" (1970)
* Most no. 1 hits in the Australian singles chart (23 no. 1s).
o "I Want to Hold Your Hand" (1963), "I Saw Her Standing There" (1964), All My Loving EP (1964), "Can't Buy Me Love" (1964), "A Hard Day's Night" (1964), "I Should Have Known Better" (1964), "I Feel Fine" (1964), "Rock and Roll Music" (1965), "Ticket to Ride" (1965), "Help!" (1965), "Day Tripper"/"We Can Work It Out" (1965), "Nowhere Man" (1966), "Yellow Submarine"/"Eleanor Rigby" (1966), "Penny Lane"/"Strawberry Fields Forever" (1967), "All You Need Is Love" (1967), "Hello, Goodbye" (1967), "Lady Madonna" (1968), "Hey Jude" (1968), "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da" (1969), "Get Back" (1969), "The Ballad of John and Yoko" (1969), "Something"/"Come Together" (1969), "Let It Be" (1970) [7]
* Most no. 1 hits in the Dutch singles chart (21 no. 1s).
o "I Want to Hold Your Hand' (1964), "Can't Buy Me Love" (1964), Long Tall Sally EP (1964), "A Hard Day's Night" (1964), "I Should Have Known Better" (1964), "I Feel Fine" (1964), "Rock and Roll Music" (1965), "Ticket to Ride" (1965), "Help!" (1965), "Yesterday" (1965), "We Can Work It Out/Day Tripper" (1965), "Michelle" (1966), "Paperback Writer" (1966), "Yellow Submarine"/"Eleanor Rigby" (1966), "Penny Lane"/"Strawberry Fields Forever" (1967), "All You Need Is Love" (1967), "Hello, Goodbye" (1967), "Hey Jude" (1968), "Get Back" (1969), "The Ballad of John and Yoko" (1969), "Let It Be" (1970)
* Most no. 1 hits in the Swedish singles chart (18 no. 1s).
* Most no. 1 hits in the Canadian singles chart (22 no. 1s, CHUM chart).
* Most no. 1 hits in the Norwegian singles chart (21 no. 1s).
* Most hits in the German singles chart within a calendar year (16 hits, 1964).
* Most consecutive top 10 hits in the German singles chart (17, from 1965 to 1970).
* Most no. 1 hits in the German singles chart within a calendar year (4 no. 1 hits in 1969, record shared with ABBA).
* Group with most top 10 hits in the German singles chart (29 top 10 hits).
* Group with most weeks in the German singles chart (589 weeks).
* Most weeks at no. 1 in the German albums chart (113 weeks at no. 1).
* Group with most weeks in the German albums chart (1,180 weeks up to 2000).
* Group with most no. 1 albums in the German albums chart (11 no. 1 albums).
* The double album The Beatles/1962-1966 spent more weeks in the German album charts top 10 than any other artist album (124 weeks, only beaten by soundtracks My Fair Lady and West Side Story).
* Most weeks at no. 1 in the German albums chart within a calendar year (36 weeks at no. 1 in 1964, excludes soundtracks).
* Group with most albums in the German albums chart within a calendar year (6 albums in 1964).
* Most weeks at no. 1 in the Dutch singles chart (67 weeks at no. 1).
* Most weeks at no. 1 in the Dutch singles chart within a calendar year (29 weeks, 1965).
* Most top 10 hits in the Dutch singles chart (35 top 10 hits).
* Most consecutive no. 1 hits in the Dutch singles chart (6 consecutive no. 1 hits).
* Group with most weeks in the Dutch singles chart (523 weeks).
* Only act to debut at no. 1 in the Dutch singles chart (3 times).
* Most no. 1 albums in the Norwegian albums chart (12 no. 1 albums).
* Most weeks at no. 1 in the Norwegian singles chart (97 weeks at no. 1).
* Most weeks at no. 1 in the Norwegian albums chart (182 weeks at no. 1).
* With The Beatles spent more weeks at no. 1 in the Norwegian albums chart than any other artist album (31 weeks at no. 1, second only to soundtrack The Sound of Music).
* Most weeks at no. 1 in the Norwegian singles chart within a calendar year (25 weeks at no. 1 in 1966).
* Most weeks at no. 1 in the Norwegian albums chart within a calendar year (48 weeks at no. 1 in 1964).
* Most consecutive no. 1 singles in the Norwegian singles chart (8 consecutive no. 1 singles from 1965 to 1967).
* Most hit singles within a calendar year in the Norwegian singles chart (10 hit singles in 1964).
* Most no. 1 hit singles within a calendar year in the Norwegian singles chart (6 no. 1 hits in 1964).
* Most consecutive no. 1 hits in the Swiss singles chart (5 consecutive no. 1 hits from 1968 to 1970, chart only started in 1968).
* Group with most weeks in the Australian singles chart (604 weeks).
* Group with most weeks in the Finnish singles chart (437 weeks).
* Group with most top 10 hits in the Austrian singles chart (25 top 10 hits).
* Group with most top 10 hits in the Danish singles chart (33 top 10 hits).
* 23 no. 1 hits in Australia (101 weeks at no. 1).
* 23 no. 1 hits in Canada (74 weeks at no. 1).
* 21 no. 1 hits in The Netherlands (67 weeks at no. 1).
* 21 no. 1 hits in Norway (97 weeks at no. 1).
* 21 no. 1 hits in Sweden.
* 20 no. 1 hits in America (59 weeks at no. 1).
* 17 no. 1 hits in Britain (69 weeks at no. 1).
* 15 no. 1 hits in New Zealand (27 weeks at no. 1).
* 14 no. 1 hits in Denmark (71 weeks at no. 1).
* 13 no. 1 hits in Ireland (48 weeks at no. 1).
* 12 no. 1 hits in Germany (32 weeks at no. 1).
* 8 no. 1 hits in Zimbabwe (29 weeks at no. 1).
* 7 no. 1 hits in Hong Kong.
* 6 no. 1 hits in Austria (38 weeks at no. 1).
* 6 no. 1 hits in Belgium (20 weeks at no. 1).
* 5 no. 1 hits in Finland.
* 5 no. 1 hits in Malaysia.
* 5 no. 1 hits in Switzerland (29 weeks at no. 1).
* 4 no. 1 hits in Italy (11 weeks at no. 1).
* 4 no. 1 hits in Spain (12 weeks at no. 1).
* 2 no. 1 hits in Ethiopia (98 weeks at no. 1)

And dont forget we had a much smaller population back then. Also there were no ROCK stations. Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin were still topping the charts at the time. There wasnt even FM yet. You all need a better perspective on all this. Most of the groups you think invented all this stuff like Hendrix and Zep were a musical generation behind the Beatles.

[Reverend Joe]

Most of the groups you think invented all this stuff like Hendrix and Zep were a musical generation behind the Beatles.

Yeah, and magic mushrooms grow from cow crap. What's your point?

Sorry. I had to.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Yeah, and magic mushrooms grow from cow crap. What's your point?

That you dont give the Beatles enough credit GAH

So we have finally reached the peak of the countdown and who better to top it than The Beatles. Not only did they change the face of music forever but they changed the world. Everything The Beatles did was news and not only news but large news, whether it was Paul admitting he used drugs, John saying “The Beatles are bigger than Jesus,” or turning down an offer to play for royalty in the Philippines it seemed as if the world revolved around the fab four. In my last post I said that Pink Floyd was the most influential band in Progressive Rock music, well The Beatles take the spot for the most influential band in music, they were so incredibly innovative and important. They seemed to have a limitless imagination and their creativity will never be matched. I could write a novel on the importance of The Beatles but I’m sure nobody would like to read that and I sure don’t feel like writing that much

Ask your dad he was there. Everything in music changed because of the Beatles right down to the packaging.

LINK

And as a last resort I present you with this. If it doesnt change your mind nothing will

The Unholy Legacy of The Beatles by Pastor David L. Brown, Ph.D.

[KukriKhan]

In my opinion, The Beatles proved that even blue-collar brits of humble musical talent, could assimilate Afro-Carib slave music, and make it palatable to the white man's ear. Later, they stretched to assimilate other cultures' music; Indian, Asian, every genre popular (us 'country', folk, etc.).

That wasn't a bad thing. For that they deserve respect. But not adoration. They were a part (an important part, due to the influence of radio) of a chain leading to the global popular music appreciation we have today.

Their strength, I think, was their ability to understand, and mimic, then reproduce as their own, other people's music.

Their weakness was, their own popular success. In their early, hungry days, they were great. Once they found out what worked/paid best, they kind of lost their creative edge, in my opinion.

Mr. McCartney has always been able to make 'pretty' songs. He continues to do so. Without the fiery tempering of Mr. Lennon, and the musically-creative genius of Mr. Harrison, it just sounds syrupy. Mr. Starr's drumming has always been underrated. In their earlier years, IMO, HE (Ringo) was the soul of the outfit, bringing order to the chaos of the ongoing power struggle of Lennon-McCartney, and the anarchism of Harrison.

Go ahead: recite a Beatles song; you'll likely forget a word or line or two. But the beat? You remember every cymbal 'tish' and 'boomp' of the bass drum.

[Franconicus]

Gawain, great thread, great statement. I agree with you completly. (well, maybe you underrate the importance of the fab four a bit )

[Subedei]

Wow, just felt like visiting a music forum...no offence...but you know I had a couple of musicrelated posts as soon as i hit the "new posts" button.

Rock & Roll TW....

My opinion on music is, you can´t really tell somebody to like something or listen to something, if he/she has his or her own taste...if not, they´ll just listen to what most of the people listen to....

[naut]

To jump in the deep end I'd have to say most of the technical/production changes should be attributed to those behind the sound desks.

Go ahead: recite a Beatles song; you'll likely forget a word or line or two. But the beat? You remember every cymbal 'tish' and 'boomp' of the bass drum.

Bonzo is sooo much better than Ringo. Period. Ringo's drumming is so mundane and rudimentary. And I know you will argue that he revolutionised drumming, etcetera. But the fact of the matter is when in comes down to the individual instrument's uses and styles of play, Ringo did no such thing. It was later drummers such as Bonzo, Mitch Mitchell and even to some extent Ginger Baker (aka monkeyman). That's not to say he's bad, because that would be rubbish too, he is decent and underrated (see "Strawberry Fields Forever", the drumming is exemplary). However, he simply cannot match the power and bass-snare syncopation of Bonzo, the technicality, speed or rhythm of Mitchell and the energy of Baker.

The one thing The Beatles really did epitomise was the cult of personality.

Listen to the man, "it was to look at them [The Beatles], you didn't really bother what you were listening too", the most articulate drummer.

Now here's drumming.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Wow how did I miss this

Again, I find that the vast majority of the pints stated in your article are either purely opinion or detrimental to music and society as a whole.

Well your wrong again as usual

I despise most people like this. And I have very short hair (I cut it with a 3/8" comb.)

But you like all those other long haired hippy groups. Your bias is showing again.

The Beatniks started this, and they were most responsible for spreading it as a phenomenon, not the Beatles.

What can I say other than your out of your mind.

None of this could possibly considered "good", especially the loss of rockabilly; in fact, it could be said that Creedence reversed the damage done by the Beatles. As for the psychedelic movement, I would argue it was more fueled by the effects of LSD and marijuana upon the Rock/Rockabilly culture and the general "outsider" culture than any Beatles music.

Your showing a total lack of knowledge of the times here. Creedence revered the damage? How? What damage? The Beatles music indeed fuled by drugs. It was they who are indeed responsible for spreading their use. But drugs have always been used by musicians and artists. You really are cluless on this topic it seems.

And how is opening the door for British rock a bad thing?

This already existed as far back as Woody Gutherie, not to mention the slave spirituals; it would have appeared anyway, regardless of the Beatles.

Are you kidding me? Yeah everyone knows Woody. Hec more probably know his son.Sure people had these ideas before but nobody had such an influence on music and society. Your missing the whole point.

First actual positive point I have seen so far. However, many, if not most, of my favorite artists did not write their own material, and I think it is foolish to think that artists should create all original material. Again, look at Creedence:
an excellent band, but much of their best material (Suzy Q, Ninety nine and a Half, Midnight Special, The Night Time is the Right Time, Heard It Through the Grapevine) was not original.

So you shouldnt be creative according to you. The Beatles did a lot more covers than CCR did. And they were much bigger hits with them

Tell me who wrote Proud Mary, Lookin' Out My Back Door, Fortunate Son,Bad Moon Rising, Up Around The Bend, Have You Ever Seen the Rain? and Who'll Stop The Rain. Did they play their own instrument? So they did not only write most of their own songs but most of their hits. They too were influenced by the Beatles

hey wouldnt even have had the studio to record it in or the equipment to make it without the Beatles.

An incredibly pompous attempt to inflate the Beatles to proportions to which they are undeserving.

All this shows is you have nothing but a laymans sense of music. Check out the structure of their music.

I stand corrected. THIS was the worst thing to ever happen to music. When musicians began to rely on artificiality and studio sound, music took a turn for the worse.

Everyone cant go see a group in concert. So after the Beatless music took a turn for the worse huh.

To jump in the deep end I'd have to say most of the technical/production changes should be attributed to those behind the sound desks.

The Beatles were those guys.

Ringo's drumming is so mundane and rudimentary. And I know you will argue that he revolutionised drumming, etcetera. But the fact of the matter is when in comes down to the individual instrument's uses and styles of play, Ringo did no such thing

What would anyone with your name know about drums? Ringo was perfect for the Beatles.

I was lucky enough to be surrounded by three frustrated drummers and each of them thought I was an octopus. They forgot I only had two hands and two feet. I remember John once coming and playing a record and saying, "Oh, Ringo, I just love you to play this." I said, "But, John, there's two drummers on that!" "Oh, no, you can do it." So then I would have to do whatever I could to get close." -- Ringo Starr in Musician Magazine (June 1991)

"Playing without Ringo is like driving a car on three wheels." -- George Harrison (1964).

"Ringo Starr is still an underrated drummer. To begin with, he keeps flawless time, never giving in to the tendency to rush or slow down -- an essential element of driving Rock 'n' Roll. ... His role in the band is impossible to discount. Each track has its own drum sound, its own specific patterns, and he gives each song a special feel by adjusting his rhythms to suit the musical tone. His partnership with Paul's increasingly active bass playing is still a lesson in how variously the bottom can support the top." -- Tim Riley, Tell Me Why(1988).

"Ringo has a tremendous feel for a song and he always helped us hit the right tempo first time. He was rock solid and this made the recording of all the Beatles' songs so much easier" -- George Martin, in The Beatles Recording Sessions by Mark Lewisohn (1988)

"People who think that (Ringo could be replaced) are ignorant. His personality and style of drumming helped make the band. ... You take any one member from that group, and you won't have the Beatles." --- Discoveries magazine (1993)

"In the strangest way, he complemented his three fellow Beatles like only Ringo could. As a musician, a drummer, he's been ridiculed countless times in the past; it's only now that he's beginning to be viewed in another light. His drumming, as simple and basic as it was, turned out to be the perfect drum style for all the Lennon and McCartney tunes." -- Robert Santelli in Goldmine magazine(1985)

"Ringo did the job absolutely correctly. ... They were just great songs, and he played them in the only way they could be played. What he did was absolutely right." -- Brian Bennett in Speaking Words of Wisdom by Spencer Leigh (1991)

"(In the song, I'm Down), the band veers breathlessly close to the edge of hysteria, and it's to Ringo's credit that things don't fall apart. The hardest assignment for any drummer is to let the others cut loose to the extreme while providing a steady beat for them to fall back on. Lesser bands would easily come unglued with a groove so addled and punctured; Ringo maintains a sure but unconfining back beat for the madness, the strongest glue of all." -- Tim Riley, Tell Me Why by Tim Riley (1988).

"During his tenure with The Beatles, until the group's demise, he did his job admirably, adding only what was deemed necessary to complement The Beatles material. Ringo succeeded, simply because what he played was perfect for the music." -- Great Rock Drummers of the 60s by Bob Cianci (1989)

"As a drummer he was a natural, purely intuitive, remarkably tasteful, spirited, but always basic, a proponent of the less-is-more school of minimal drumming. With a sense of endearing modesty, Ringo has often disparaged his drumming over the years; but the fact of the matter was that his willingness to lay back and take direction and feed the others -- a quality which seemed intrinsically rooted in his background and character -- was what allowed The Beatles sound to take such powerful flight. He was, in essence, the perfect team player, a character musician whose ingenuity grew directly out of a sublime ability to make his deficiencies and flaws as a musician work to accentuate and liberate rather hold back their music. -- Martin Torgoff in The Compleat Beatles (1985).

"George became fascinated with the intricacies of Indian music. ... Paul sat increasingly more behind the piano, his knowledge of song writing and pop sensibility expanding as horizontally as the keyboard itself; and John conceptualized and figured artistic directions, always called for more experimentation; Ringo drummed resolutely on, seemingly able to keep up with each one effortlessly." -- Lenny Kaye in The Compleat Beatles (1985)

"Lennon got into abstract lyrics and his acid rock guitar style, McCartney expanded and refined his pop-writing craft, and Harrison got very involved in authentic Indian music and Indian instruments. Ringo, meanwhile, had the challenge of adapting to everyone's style. He always played what was called for. If he had been a rigid drummer, set in his ways, The Beatles would have been in trouble. He played the songwriter's version of the song, not his, like an egoless drummer. ... He always had a gift for being very musical with The Beatles music." -- Kenny Aronoff in Modern Drummer magazine (Nov. 1987)

"He had a style that was simple and basic, and it fitted the style and the time. He was a low-profile drummer which was absolutely right for The Beatles. He was an extremely good accompanist. ... He had great empathy with what The Beatles were doing. He was very modest in his approach to drumming." -- Rowan Atkinson in Speaking Words of Wisdom by Spencer Leigh (1991)

"I think Ringo star was a lot more than adequate and he was the unsung hero of The Beatles. He was one of the best. ... He was a straight-four player, a four-four player, and a very solid drummer. It must have been very hard for the Beatles to play with all those kids screaming, there weren't good monitors in those days, and Ringo held those concerts together. They were following him, he wasn't following them." -- Richard Thompson in Speaking Words of Wisdom by Spencer Leigh (1991).

Their strength, I think, was their ability to understand, and mimic, then reproduce as their own, other people's music.

They didnt play other peoples music. Your on the right track here however. What they did was take all styles of music and apply them to rock thus expanding rock to what we see today. This is what really makes them important. They opened a whole new world. I really wish you people could go back to the early 60s and hear what was on the radio. Just compare rock before the Beatles to rock after the Beatles. The Beatles were the 60s.

That wasn't a bad thing. For that they deserve respect. But not adoration. They were a part (an important part, due to the influence of radio) of a chain leading to the global popular music appreciation we have today.

No they were the driving force and major Influence. Im afraid your not giving them their due. Im afraid only those of us who actually lived through it can really appreciate just what the Beatles meant to my generation and to the world.