A Simple Guide for Complaing about Unit Stats

**tk-421** · 06-19-2007, 04:09

What should I do if I think a unit is underpowered?

Before posting anything about a unit whose stats you think are wrong, please check to see if the unit is using the spear attribute. This can be done by opening the export_descr_unit.txt, found in the EB/Data folder and searching for the appropriate folder. If the unit in question has said attribute, than you have probably found the cause of your problems (or at least the ones associated with that unit). To fix the problem for yourself, change "spear" to "no" (unless there are other attributes present, in that case, just delete it). If you do not find that attribute, then go ahead and post something and I or someone else will see if we know what the problem is (if there even is a problem).

Why is the Spear Attribute so bad?

The spear attribute gives a rather large penalty to a unit engaged against enemy infantry. Our stat system was not designed with this in mind. In short, I HATE the spear attribute.

If you hate the spear attribute, why is it in the game?

The spear attribute was mistakingly given to some units by unit integration people (don't blame them, they didn't know) and others are left over from a very long, long time ago.

Will the spear attribute be removed in the next release?

It already has been.

What should I do if I think a unit is overpowered or has some other problem?

Go ahead and post something, someone will take a look. Keep in mind that your problem may have already been fixed in our internal build or we may not consider it a problem it all.

What if I think that the Gaesatae and/or Tindanotae (Celtic Fanatics) are overpowered and feel it necessary to post a thread about the subject?

We are comfortable with our stats for Celtic fanatics and will not change them, so don't post a thread about the subject. If you really don't like them, just reduce their hitpoints from 2 to 1 and maybe reduce morale a bit.

How does EB stat its units?

A complex system, a magic (if somwhat out of date) spreadsheet, and a lot of testing.

Will EB release its stat system to the public?

Maybe some day, but probably not anytime soon.

Will EB release its magic spreadsheets to the public?

No.

Why do some spear-armed cavalry have lethality of 0.15 and others of 0.33?

That's part of our system.

How does EB determine a unit's cost?

A system and a magic spreadsheet. Costs, though, are often left open to some tweaking if we feel there is a gameplay issue.

I notice that there are some costs which seem inconsistent, should I report them?

No. All costs have been reviewed and all problems have been fixed (I hope...).

If I do have something legitimate to complain about, where should I do my complaining?

This thread is probably as good as any, or maybe another one.

**mAIOR** · 06-19-2007, 15:38

I have one omplain that is Tindonatae being 1000mnai cheaper than Gaestasae... Why is that??

Cheers...

**NeoSpartan** · 06-19-2007, 17:39

exelent post...

I recommend you put the Celtic Fanatics part be typed in BIG BOLD LETTERS.

Now just to double check something with you.... that "spear attribute" needs to be corrected in non-spear infantry soldiers, OR does it need to be corrected in spear and non-spear infantry alike?????

**Pharnakes** · 06-19-2007, 18:00

Yeah, I'm sure I've seen people saying that units should have the spear attribute.

**Centurio Nixalsverdrus** · 06-19-2007, 18:03

Originally Posted by NeoSpartan

exelent post...

I recommend you put the Celtic Fanatics part be typed in BIG BOLD LETTERS.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by NeoSpartan

Now just to double check something with you.... that "spear attribute" needs to be corrected in non-spear infantry soldiers, OR does it need to be corrected in spear and non-spear infantry alike?????

I think in both spear and non-spear infantry. I think he is referring to the known Hypaspistai issue, IIRC.

**Tito Pullo** · 06-19-2007, 18:48

Personally, I think the Eb unit stats system is very good for this game engine much better than vanilla and others mod I´ve tried.

**Watchman** · 06-19-2007, 20:33

Far as I can tell the "spear" attribute is (outside phalanxes natch) virtually entirely restricted to the secondary weapon of "sword-and-spear" units like Hypaspistai and the assorted Celtic elites (a fair few others with the same combination don't have the attribute for their secondaries). Since the primary weapon in all cases is a sword, and one with the whopping 0.225 lethality and in most cases but one point less attack than the secondary spear (which has the usual infantry overhand lethality of 0.13), I must wonder - how is the secondary weapon having the "spear" attribute in any way particularly relevant to an unit "performing poorly" (especially as it sidesteps the issue AI has with secondaries), and were it removed (or lacking to begin with, as with eg. the Gastiz and their ilk), what reason would anyone have to ever use the units' secondary weapons ?

To me at least it would make sense to use the secondary overhand as a specialized "anti-cavalry" weapon to emphasize the versatility of these high-end units; certainly if it were stripped of any such factors, the only reason to ever use it would be for the sake of appereances...

**Cybvep** · 06-20-2007, 15:57

I have a suggestion: use "accuracy_vs_units" value (it's quite unique - the lower the better) in descr_projectile_new.txt for standard projectiles (arrows, javelins etc.). By that you can eg. make western archers less accurate than their eastern counterparts. I've tested it, and it works. Just another thing for stat-balancing and such (and without the "lethality" value for missile units it's quite useful, I think...).

Do you have any plans to limit the effects of unit's experience somehow? Those "gold chevron guys" are quite unbalancing... Maybe all units should start with 3-5 chevrons (with corresponding changes in stats, of course)?

**QwertyMIDX** · 06-20-2007, 17:12

Originally Posted by Cybvep

Do you have any plans to limit the effects of unit's experience somehow? Those "gold chevron guys" are quite unbalancing... Maybe all units should start with 3-5 chevrons (with corresponding changes in stats, of course)?

Yeah, we're working on rescaling the stat system to use larger numbers so experience is less unbalancing. Once we have the room to play around that the larger numbers will give us we my also do something about starting units with some experience.

**Cybvep** · 06-20-2007, 17:17

Neat. Anyway, I have another suggestion: you can use the "arena" attribute in EDU for units with shortswords and big shields to represent the fact that such units would be able to deal with the effects of cohesion better and therefore be much more efficient in close order. Correspondingly, you can also give a speed penalty for the units with heavy two-handed weapons (like two-handed axes or swords). Currently almost all units have their speed set to "0" (which is not a bad thing, as the battles are more intense), so...