Emotions and Passions

[Bijo]

Emotions and passions are like a form of insanity. True?

[Fragony]

You and Arnon Grunberg should have a little chat

[CountArach]

False.

Emotion and Passion can be harnassed and controlled TO AN EXTENT, Insanity cannot.

[Bijo]

False.

Emotion and Passion can be harnassed and controlled TO AN EXTENT, Insanity cannot.

Insanity can also be harnessed and controlled. It can be done by others not suffering from said insanity.




(
My question in the OP could be taken with a touch of poetic meaning, if you know what I mean.
)

[Bijo]

You and Arnon Grunberg should have a little chat

Why is that?

[CountArach]

Insanity can also be harnessed and controlled. It can be done by others not suffering from said insanity.

Yes, but this is an external entity controlling the internal entity.

Emotions are internal entities beign controlled by the internal entity.

[Bijo]

Following the logic I see in your responses, CountArach:


If a person is emotional and has passions and this person cannot control them, this means that the boolean expression to be returned from the original question is true: emotions and passions are like a form of insanity.

[Husar]

I always knew that I'm quite insane.

Maybe they're illogical, but I wouldn't necessarily say insane. But it also depends on the individual passion or emotion. Some are illogical and some are insane.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Emotions and passions are like a form of insanity. True?

Following the logic I see in your responses, CountArach:

You don't happen to have pointy ears and a quizzical eyebrow thing, do you?

[Bijo]

You don't happen to have pointy ears and a quizzical eyebrow thing, do you?

Is this what you humans call an attempt at humour? Fascinating ;)

[Papewaio]

Emotions and passions are like a form of insanity. True?

Passions are an evolutionary mechanism to help us survive. They help motivate us to greater levels of achievement. We reconfigure our biochemistry to suit our current needs, we get colder and lower our heart rate late at night to go to sleep, similarly fear, anger, panic pump our alertness levels up and ready our body for flight or fight. Passions essentially the overclocking software we use to boost our hardware for a particular event... Passions are not wrong, mis-matching of passions to need is...so self awareness is needed to control then... and can be achieved by better understanding of ones own responses to situations.

Emotions and the ability to understand them in others (empathy) allows us to work in a group and attend to each others needs without having to spell it out in explicit detail... it is a shortcut to understanding... like reading the time on a clock by looking at the display rather then opening it up and looking at the gears to figure out the time. Emotions are the display mechanism for something deeper down, they are to motivate ourselves and others into a course of action.

[Bijo]

A most interesting and enjoyable explanation, Papewaio, but unfortunately not directly addressing the question quoted just before it which requires a truth value as answer.

Emotions and the ability to understand them in others (empathy) allows us to work in a group and attend to each others needs without having to spell it out in explicit detail... it is a shortcut to understanding... like reading the time on a clock by looking at the display rather then opening it up and looking at the gears to figure out the time. Emotions are the display mechanism for something deeper down, they are to motivate ourselves and others into a course of action.

The analogy I detect appears wrong and so does the reasoning.

Emotions and passions still remain precisely what they are: illogical irrational things. It takes a clear mind to understand something, but I will grant you that when you know emotions and passions it will add to one's understanding of them.


EDIT: removed unnecessary information at end.

[Marshal Murat]

Can emotions and passions be quantified as 'things'? Or are they a more spiritual 'it' that is there and will be? (Insert some good bible verses here_______)

Insanity, in my book, means that you cannot use judgment, or decide between right and wrong.

Passions and Emotions are not forms of insanity, since 'right and wrong' are defined by accepted social norms and mores, and if judgment of 'right and wrong' are based on a social standard then it is human, and therefore an imperfect definition, and beyond definition.

[Bijo]

(...)

Insanity, in my book, means that you cannot use judgment, or decide between right and wrong.

Passions and Emotions are not forms of insanity, since 'right and wrong' are defined by accepted social norms and mores, and if judgment of 'right and wrong' are based on a social standard then it is human, and therefore an imperfect definition, and beyond definition.

My apologies, for I respectfully decline the quoted addition. Reason: the words in my book are used.

Can emotions and passions be quantified as 'things'? Or are they a more spiritual 'it' that is there and will be? (Insert some good bible verses here_______)

Regardless thereof, they are still things which we can refer to.

[Reverend Joe]

Emotions and passions are like a form of insanity. True?

False. Insanity does not exist. Societal restrictions do.

Emotions and passions, on the other hand, are a definite part of our psyche; in fact, they are more real even than consciousness. They are the basic drivers of survival.

[Yun Dog]

Emotions and passions are like a form of insanity. True?

show me one person that fits the definition of normal

look at us sitting here having our little rants on an internet forum, to some cultures this would be regarded as insane

observe someone picking up their animals deficcation

observe people living their lives to appease an imaginary deity

in reality we are all insane - it is the socially unacceptable forms of normal we lock away

[naut]

Bijo, I enjoy your scientific mind. I can imagine that you were very good at Science and Maths at school. I can also imagine that English would have been one of your weaker/weakest subjects. (Just a guess).

Emotion and passion is entirely human. Humans are not naturally rational, we are bred to be that way through institutions, which in the Modern world are school, university and the people we label our parents. As babies we over-react, we cry, we wail and we laugh; we all do. So as we develop we get a conceptualisation of a social norm, and we are told what is rational/irrational, logical/illogical and emotional/rational. We get taught that to be emotional is the binary opposite of all that is logical, that we progress as humankind (females and males, none of this sexist "mankind" dogma) through the logic of science. But, what is progression, tell me? How do you even define it, is it a set of steps to form a conclusion, or a grouping of feeling that eventuates and then ends in death. I know that you, Bijo would argue the former. Yet, I would digress to say that the first would hold no meaning if there was no society or grouping, in which emotion was regarded and expressed. For without humanity would there be our understanding of science?

Another thing to mention is that everyone has a different "reality", even though we live in the same world, one person will never view events and happenings exactly the same as someone else will. For example, take a crime scene, the police will interview witnesses. Say they interview 10 individuals and they all saw the same thing, they will have a different perspective, attitude and all will focus on something different. One may notice the eye colour of the felon, another will miss it entirely and mention the clothing etcetera. In that way insanity can also be subjective, as even though one's experience may be different and considered "insane" by another, it doesn't make it wrong, it just makes it their own and entirely subjective not objective.

So to identify insanity you need objective bounds, and to label emotion and passion as insane they need to entirely meet these bounds. However, emotion is so diverse and varied I doubt that all emotion would fall under these objective bounds.

My apologies, for I respectfully decline the quoted addition. Reason: the words in my book are used.

All living is opinion. The mind works on contrasts, so to evaluate something you contrast it and then come to your own conclusions. So whose to say that anything is correct or wrong. Nobody, because it is all subjective. Therefore I value opinion, because it allows me to contrast and evaluate, and therefore synthesis my own response. And nobody can speak for all humanity because everyone has a different view, perspective, value, experience and reception. So when making a claim it is only just to state it is your opinion, because it is just that, your opinion and nothing more and no-one else's.

[Bijo]

Bijo, I enjoy your scientific mind. I can imagine that you were very good at Science and Maths at school. I can also imagine that English would have been one of your weaker/weakest subjects. (Just a guess).

I rejoice reading one who enjoys my activity. It contribute it with satisfaction and I say this not only to you but to any other Org member interested.

If you wish to know: I excelled in math, music, art, languages, and other things (that were not necessarily taught subjects there (which is regrettable)).

Emotion and passion is entirely human. Humans are not naturally rational, we are bred to be that way through institutions, which in the Modern world are school, university and the people we label our parents. As babies we over-react, we cry, we wail and we laugh; we all do. So as we develop we get a conceptualisation of a social norm, and we are told what is rational/irrational, logical/illogical and emotional/rational. We get taught that to be emotional is the binary opposite of all that is logical, that we progress as humankind (females and males, none of this sexist "mankind" dogma) through the logic of science.

Emotions and passions are indeed human -- more largely taken, universalities (of nature).
Regarding institutions (besides parents): you are saying schools teach us to be irrational. True?

But, what is progression, tell me? How do you even define it, is it a set of steps to form a conclusion, or a grouping of feeling that eventuates and then ends in death. I know that you, Bijo would argue the former. Yet, I would digress to say that the first would hold no meaning if there was no society or grouping, in which emotion was regarded and expressed. For without humanity would there be our understanding of science?

I would not argue here; I would communicate the following: progression is the act of progressing and -- observing the topic's purpose -- this question is irrelevant. However I do enjoy it.

Regarding the second part: I have already stated that emotions, passions, add to one's understanding where reason is the thing that allows clarity on the higher level.

Another thing to mention is that everyone has a different "reality", even though we live in the same world, one person will never view events and happenings exactly the same as someone else will. For example, take a crime scene, the police will interview witnesses. Say they interview 10 individuals and they all saw the same thing, they will have a different perspective, attitude and all will focus on something different. One may notice the eye colour of the felon, another will miss it entirely and mention the clothing etcetera. In that way insanity can also be subjective, as even though one's experience may be different and considered "insane" by another, it doesn't make it wrong, it just makes it their own and entirely subjective not objective.

Their "different realities" are irrelevant. We should indeed be objective.

So to identify insanity you need objective bounds, and to label emotion and passion as insane they need to entirely meet these bounds. However, emotion is so diverse and varied I doubt that all emotion would fall under these objective bounds.

Possibly.

All living is opinion. The mind works on contrasts, so to evaluate something you contrast it and then come to your own conclusions. So whose to say that anything is correct or wrong. Nobody, because it is all subjective. Therefore I value opinion, because it allows me to contrast and evaluate, and therefore synthesis my own response. And nobody can speak for all humanity because everyone has a different view, perspective, value, experience and reception. So when making a claim it is only just to state it is your opinion, because it is just that, your opinion and nothing more and no-one else's.

Opinion will not bring truth. If a tree in a far-away forest falls it produces sound regardless whether we hear it or not, and its falling occurred whether we see it or not. Logic dictates, if it occurs, it occurs. In the case of the falling tree the only true subjectivity required is to be present to with our senses, etc., register the occurrence. However, I must mention that claiming this required "subjectivity" to register surroundings and including it here serves futility.

[naut]

If you wish to know: I excelled in math, music, art, languages, and other things

Ah, I was wrong. Your point of view is usually that of a purely science/math oriented person.

Regarding institutions (besides parents): you are saying schools teach us to be irrational. True?

I'm claiming the opposite, that they teach rational thought and subjects that teach creativity are viewed in distain and of less value.

Regarding the second part: I have already stated that emotions, passions, add to one's understanding where reason is the thing that allows clarity on the higher level.

From personal experience, and this is my own and no one else's, the most profound moments of my life have been brought about by emotional happenings or surroundings, such as in nature. I write poetry, and I could never write what I write in a scientific frame of mind or location of rationality. So I agree with you by saying that it brings understanding. And I partially agree with the second, as the rational procedure of language allows me to express my thoughts and emotions.

Back on Topic:

If insanity is being unreasonable and being detached from reality, this is not generally applicable to emotions. If we look at simple cause and effect in human relations, there will be a cause that will stimulate a natural emotional response. Responses of people vary depending on physical health (I'm not referencing the brain or mental just to clarify), social background, upbringing, culture, belief structure, and personality. If someone steals from me the natural response is to be angry, and attempt to get my possession back and/or attempt to punish the wrongdoer. Is that insanity? Not necessarily no. In stone-age culture emotions were used as a survival tool, a means to survive. A man's desire to live can drive him to all feats of strength and endurance that would be "scientifically" impossible/near impossible. Such as several woman who have held up their cars for several successive hours because their child has been trapped underneath the car. This should be scientifically impossible, but their emotions have driven them to these actions. The external cause/pressure stimulates a emotional response. On the flip-side issues regarding race/religion/nationality can bring about other more violent emotion. Yet, whatever the cause is there is a predicted emotional response, demonstrating a connection with the world around.

[Bijo]

I'm claiming the opposite, that they teach rational thought and subjects that teach creativity are viewed in distain and of less value.

It didn't appear you were stating that. Here comes the quote:

Humans are not naturally rational, we are bred to be that way through institutions, which in the Modern world are school, university and the people we label our parents.

But if you really mean the opposite ===> Still I recall having noticed many there -- in schools and such -- who were very irrational -- including teachers. Their natural "human sides" were dominant and controlling them as they allowed very little logical thought -- only typical reasoning with its human flaws.

If insanity is being unreasonable and being detached from reality, this is not generally applicable to emotions. If we look at simple cause and effect in human relations, there will be a cause that will stimulate a natural emotional response. Responses of people vary depending on physical health (I'm not referencing the brain or mental just to clarify), social background, upbringing, culture, belief structure, and personality. If someone steals from me the natural response is to be angry, and attempt to get my possession back and/or attempt to punish the wrongdoer. Is that insanity? Not necessarily no.
(...)

I will not accept this, neither will I dismiss it. For further discussion I ask you to include two other factors: (1) passion; (2) the fact that my original statement (or question) was also posed poetically.

[Bijo]

show me one person that fits the definition of normal

look at us sitting here having our little rants on an internet forum, to some cultures this would be regarded as insane

observe someone picking up their animals deficcation

observe people living their lives to appease an imaginary deity

in reality we are all insane - it is the socially unacceptable forms of normal we lock away

An enjoyable display truly. However, you have then pobably excluded the fact I mentioned long before that my statement is also to be taken poetically.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Normal emotions that aren't subconciously/deliberately manipulated to get stronger/more extreme/insane aren't like insanity at all. On the contrary, they are intended to serve as a guideline for actions. All people, no matter how rational they claim to be, set up their high level strategic goals by emotions - only their low level goals are controlled by reasoning. As long as emotions are used this way, they are excellent and often more rational for long term decision making than the reasoning and thought capacity of most human beings.

Suppressing all emotions completely could be counted as insanity. So could manipulation of/strengthening of emotions be. Normal emotions are however not IMO insanity. One fun thing is that most people who have normal emotions seem to think they're suppressing their emotions, while in fact they're not affecting them much at all. More often, it's the people who think they have natural emotions that are strengthening their emotions. That's at least my experience.

[Bijo]

Normal emotions that aren't subconciously/deliberately manipulated to get stronger/more extreme/insane aren't like insanity at all. On the contrary, they are intended to serve as a guideline for actions. All people, no matter how rational they claim to be, set up their high level strategic goals by emotions - only their low level goals are controlled by reasoning. As long as emotions are used this way, they are excellent and often more rational for long term decision making than the reasoning and thought capacity of most human beings.

The bolded part I question severely. Is it truly emotion? It is more desire and most likely desired emotions are results they seek.

[Rodion Romanovich]

The bolded part I question severely. Is it truly emotion? It is more desire and most likely desired emotions are results they seek.

Say something you did today you think wasn't done in order to achieve a goal set up by your emotions, and I'm pretty sure I can find an emotion to trace it back to.

[Bijo]

Say something you did today you think wasn't done in order to achieve a goal set up by your emotions, and I'm pretty sure I can find an emotion to trace it back to.

Eat food.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Eat food.

Well, that was a very simple one: you eat because of hunger, i.e. an emotion

[Andres]

Emotions and passions are like a form of insanity. True?

Since you asked so gently, I'll keep my view on your initial statement short:

- It depends on the intensity of the emotion(s)/passion(s) and your ability to control/guide them.
- defining insanity is problematic (and don't you dare to quote your dictionnary again )

Your initial statement cannot be equal to a simple "true" or "not true".

On the other hand, the statement: "Having no emotions and passions at all is a form of insanity" is true.