Dismounted Broken Lancers - trainable?

[Caliburn]

I'm playing a nice campaign with Venice, building a coupla cities to produce Advanced Plate units. One thing's bothering me a bit, though. My first campaign was with Venice as well, and I never got hold of any Dismounted Broken Lancers. Not that I really need them, if I want to go Advanced Plate, I can always train Dismounted MAA or something, but they might be fun.

Are they available, and if they are, where do I get them? The Lancers are after all trained by City Walls [sic]...

Thanks.

[Alsn]

From what i can see, Venice can train broken lances, but not dismounted ones. Sicily can train dismounted broken lances, but not mounted ones and milan can train both. I have no clue as to why that is so, but thats what i saw while quickly looking over what the city barracks, castle barracks, castle walls and city walls with the 3 factions can produce.

Might be a balancing thing or just an oversight, dont know to be honest.

[Ars Moriendi]

They aren't available in vanilla 1.02 for Venice.
If you want them, you can do mod them in. I did so for my current Venice campaign since I found it strange that you could get the mounted version from huge walls; Milan could get them ; and they're available in custom battle for Venice, but not in campaign. It looks like a minor mistake in the building file.

To add them starting with the large walls :

1. find the export_descr_buildings.txt file
2. identify the "capability" section for the large_stone_wall building
3. paste the following line right before the closing }
recruit_pool "Dismounted Broken Lances" 1 0.4 3 0 requires factions { venice, }
4. go further down to huge_stone_wall and find this line :
recruit_pool "Dismounted Broken Lances" 1 0.4 3 0 requires factions { milan, }
5. add "venice, " right after "milan,"
6. save the file

Don't forget to back up the file before any editing !

[Kobal2fr]

Italian MAAs and Dismounted Broken Lances are exactly the same. The MAAs start off with one less armor point, but can upgrade thrice for DBLs' twice.

Venice doesn't get the dismounted kind, because they have Venetian Heavy Inf. and Mortars instead. Sicily doesn't get the mounted kind, because they're supposed to rely on Condottieri I think, that and Norman Knights. Also, because Sicily is kind of a "melting pot" faction, that gets some of the Spanish roster, some of the Turkish roster and most of the Italian one, but not all of it.

At least, that's how I rationalize such a weird state of affairs .

What puzzles me more is why the HRE doesn't get Dismounted Gothics in the vanilla campaign, when they're so highly "HRE flavored" and no one else gets them. *shrug*. LTC puts them all (and English Armored Sarges) back in anyway

[DesertEagle]

Yes, I've modded in most custom battle units back into the campaign game.

One annoying thing, more related to modding back in rather than the lack of units in and of itself, is that if you pick a unit to recruit not in the top two rows (ie you have to scroll down to see/click it) it jumps back up to the top 2 rows once you selected it for recruiting, meaning you have to scroll down and select 4 times to recruit 4 units. Very annoying.

[Callahan9119]

kobal your posts make me laugh

but yeah play ltc, its just better, although i hate the distance to capital penalty, but i guess its accurate

[nameless]

Italian MAAs and Dismounted Broken Lances are exactly the same. The MAAs start off with one less armor point, but can upgrade thrice for DBLs' twice.

Venice doesn't get the dismounted kind, because they have Venetian Heavy Inf. and Mortars instead. Sicily doesn't get the mounted kind, because they're supposed to rely on Condottieri I think, that and Norman Knights. Also, because Sicily is kind of a "melting pot" faction, that gets some of the Spanish roster, some of the Turkish roster and most of the Italian one, but not all of it.

At least, that's how I rationalize such a weird state of affairs .

What puzzles me more is why the HRE doesn't get Dismounted Gothics in the vanilla campaign, when they're so highly "HRE flavored" and no one else gets them. *shrug*. LTC puts them all (and English Armored Sarges) back in anyway

I'm surprised that most people still don't understand that the reason for it is due to balance. It's done so people have to treat each faction differently. Besides, Venice gets the Venetian heavy infantry and that's an excellent unit to have.

HRE already has 2 2H sword units. Giving them the Gothic I'm guessing would be redundant. England doesn't get Armored Sargents(Though in Kingdoms they seem to be getting their own variant of it from what I can see in the screenshots) because they get billmen.

Though it's like hitting a wall, people still refuse to understand CA even provided a unit map which clearly displays the roster for the starting 5 factions.

I wonder if people critize the Age of Empires series for doing the same thing? (Such as some factions couldn't recruit a certain unit but everyone else could).

[andrewt]

I played Venice first and didn't see the point of the dismounted MAA. DFK and Venetian infantry are clearly superior. I guess if you need to raise an army in a hurry but I never needed it.

[Husar]

I usually try them all to have a look at the nice model variants etc.
And for diversity.
If CA decided to do it that way, that's fine with me, though I decided to mod the Dismounted Gothics back in and should put the dismounted french archers in as well.

[Caliburn]

My Venetian armies have thus far been quite low on heavy infantry in any case, the bulk of the force being pavisare and Spear Militia with some cavalry support and maybe 2 Venetian Heavy to flank. Quite often I've opted for Venetian Archers as an all-round alternative to VHI, though they're not very good against heavy infantry. They're just cool.

But late campaign enemies can have pretty large amounts of heavy infantry in their stacks, so I'm thinking of using a few varied dismounted heavy units more to add support to my pikes, crossbows and in a few years, muskets. I like the variety as well, stats aren't quite as important to me, and 20 slots means you can get a lot of variety in one stack.