Why did the romans changed from Hoplitewarfare

**The Stranger** · 06-20-2007, 16:55

Do any of you know the answer to this question?

Why did the Romans change from Hoplite warfare to the acer triplex/manipular system.

I know a bit of background info about this topic but maybe you can enlighten me...

thanks in advance,

**Kralizec** · 06-20-2007, 17:22

Haven't you asked this before

**Veho Nex** · 06-20-2007, 17:23

Well i'll ask to then making the previous post unusable

**The Stranger** · 06-20-2007, 18:33

no i asked about the influence of roman reforms before... this is specific about the change from hoplite to acer triplex and the reason why...

**Kralizec** · 06-20-2007, 20:05

Taken from another thread of yours:

In the 4th century BC, the Sennones (a Gallic people) sacked and plundered Etruria and Rome (wich was already independent)
This disaster forced them to rethink how their army should operate. Most of the inspiration, and the scutum shield, came from the Samnite tribes in southern Italy, though the Samnites fought with only one line of reserve plus skirmishers IIRC.

The fact that the Greek-style hoplite phalanxes kinda sucked in the rugged terrain of Samnite territory, and the Samnite proto-maniples didn't, doubtless also kind of had an influence given how much the Romans had to fight with those guys.

**Marshal Murat** · 06-20-2007, 23:00

One Word:Mountains

**Gawain of Orkeny** · 06-21-2007, 01:35

Why did the Romans change from Hoplite warfare to the acer triplex/manipular system.

You know I never thought about this before

The fact that the Greek-style hoplite phalanxes kinda sucked in the rugged terrain of Samnite territory, and the Samnite proto-maniples didn't, doubtless also kind of had an influence given how much the Romans had to fight with those guys.

So the answer is really in the question. Its because they were easier to manipulate

I guess thats the root of the word.

**IrishArmenian** · 06-21-2007, 04:27

Out of necessity. First, the Roman's terrain meant there would be little room to maneuover a hoplite block. Second, when fighting masters of hoplite warfare, what can you do but out maneouver them and exploit there cumbersome fighting style? It is not as if you can best the creators of the hoplite block.

**Tambarskjelve** · 06-21-2007, 06:41

Well these are all valid points, but none are really confirmed.
The greek historian Polybius was the first to describe the manipular legion, about mid 2. century BC.
It was then already an established military doctrine, albeit more dependent on spears than the later legions.

It is speculated that the Romans adopted a deep figthing formation because of terrain, partly influenced by Samnites, and lessons learned establishing the northern borders. That this formation proved succesful in the Macedonian wars ensured it's continued use.
It is also speculated that they adopted the 4 maniple formation to differentiate the tiered roman society.

Roman society was competitive to the extreme, so a need to single out who was excelling in single combat was there, in addition to having 3 differently equipped hoplites/legionaries, based on wealth and social standing.
The citizens mustered on Campus Martius every fifth year, where the tribunes would take their pick in turns to the legions. This was also where one could make claims to climb the social ladder, by appealing to a Censor, who would evaluate the Citizens property, gear and accomplishments. Thus the manipular legion was the very core of Republic society.