Mongols Kryptonite

[Budwise]

Longbowmen with Stakes drawn. I have completely slaughtered insane amounts of Mongols with them deployed. I have even killed the Khan Leader. For a better responce, tell your Longbowmen to hold ground and sure enough the horde can't stop throwing men at the spikes.

[Privateerkev]

Another thing that works is a river crossing. Combine that with stakes and the Mongols threw no less than 8 stacks in my current campaign against my one stack until I had to retreat due to attrition. 5 of them were on one turn alone. Just watch them funnel through the narrow crossing and rain arrow death upon them. Works fine unless they have arty. Then they just sit there and wait for you.

Another thing I like is getting Elephants. In the later game they are in Baghdad and Jedda as mercs. Get two regular musketphants and two panzerphants and put them behind your longbow line for some bolstering. Or put them on your wings with one Panzerphant paired with a regular one on each side to flank and set up some enfilade fire down the Mongol line. The regular elephants serve as guards. Just run when you see fire arrows coming your way or your units will run amok. The only downside is that it takes forever for more elephant mercs to show up.

[gregamus]

Hey Guys,
This is my first time , so please be gentle with me.
I have looked everywhere but can't find how to make my crossbowmen erect their stakes, no this is not a joke about archers and erections, but maybe hhmmmmm.
Any assistance would be appreciated, short of viagra that is

[Magraev]

Welcome to the org Gregamus!

(I hope that was gentle enough?)

And only longbowmen and a few other archers have stakes, so that is the reason.

[Fußball]

Any assistance would be appreciated, short of viagra that is

I don't have any viagra. May I interest you in a joke or perhaps a sarcastic comment?

Tschüß!
Erich

[crpcarrot]

mongols arnt too hard if you can find any point where they are funned into one point of attack. any good spear unit can take the charge. ive used fords and mountains to kill off multiple stacks. of course stakes makes it much easier.

its the timurids that drive me nuts only way i've been able to really beat them with their elephants is when i sall out which seems to be a big exploit cos they cant seem to figure out what rnge a cannon tower has.

[alpaca]

Ach! Screw the Mongols, they can't stand up to my superior intellect.
The key to beat them is using a lot of archers and/or cavalry charges (surround them with cav and charge, charge, charge). You can also use skirmishers to annoy the hell out of their infantry by running back and forth, while your archers or crossbows pepper them with arrows.
The real problem are the Timurids because Elephants will kick your ass (unless you have naffatun that is).

@kev: Yeah I used the river defense strategy against the Tims when playing with the Turks in a savegame of Didz', and quite effectively at that (I didn't even know that I was able to get Naffatun which I shamefully have to admit)

[John_Longarrow]

At a river crossing / Bridge, a couple standards work just as well as stakes. They keep the Mongols from closing as quickly. Backed up with a couple units of good spears / Pikes and a LOT of Geneosean crossbows and Mongols drop like flies.

Same basic idea though. Pin them in place and lay on the missile fire. I'm just wondering if an elephant can get around a standard sitting in the middle of a bridge. I may have to try a custom battle just to see.

[gardibolt]

Can't an elephant destroy a standard? If not, that seems like a bug.

[madchoochter]

Can't an elephant destroy a standard? If not, that seems like a bug.

Stupid Q time: What's do you guys mean by standards here?

[andrewt]

When Mongols cross bridges, do they make their troops fire arrows while on the bridge?

[John_Longarrow]

madchoochter

The carroccio standard for Venice and Milan as well as the great cross that crusaders can recruit. Basically a giant standard on a wagon with its own elite guards.

[Privateerkev]

When Mongols cross bridges, do they make their troops fire arrows while on the bridge?

Whenever they crossed the river at a crossing, they did return fire when my units got into range. And that was devastating to the spear units I was using to pin the Mongols at the crossing. But, I was able to pour more fire into the pocket I formed than they could shoot out of it.

[andrewt]

Whenever they crossed the river at a crossing, they did return fire when my units got into range. And that was devastating to the spear units I was using to pin the Mongols at the crossing. But, I was able to pour more fire into the pocket I formed than they could shoot out of it.

I never did fight them while playing as the Turks. They spawned in Russia and I finished the game before they got into war with me. It was also a few turns before the Timurids spawned. Maybe I should continue that game. Janissary musketeers firing into them while they're crossing a bridge should be amusing.

[TevashSzat]

What I do against mongol heavy armies is to have all cav armies. As powerful as the mongols are, their armies are generally balanced meaning they dont have an extremely large amount of cav. When you are fighting with an all cav army, you can basically regard most infantry as negligible, and archers as minor annoyances. What you do is to split up your army into 4 five unit sections. Have them all go for the HAs which should be far away from the infantry line. Their heavy cav will charge into you once you engage their HA, but since you have large cav numbers attacking each HA, you should be able to fight them off. Once the mongol cav is gone, their infantry is a piece of cake since you can just tiny so your whol;e army charges into them at the same time basically creating insta rout

[Sheogorath]

Naffatun are the bane of all sieging armies, even the Mongols.
Just lure them through your gates and hold them in place with something cheap and expendable (spear levies, for instance) and drop little packets of flaming goodness on their heads.
Pretty soon you'll have a nice pile of Horse Flambe inside your gates and all those peasants who've been cowering inside your walls for the last few years can finally have a good dinner.

[madchoochter]

madchoochter

The carroccio standard for Venice and Milan as well as the great cross that crusaders can recruit. Basically a giant standard on a wagon with its own elite guards.

Ah yeah forgot about those. Thanks.

[hisn00bness]

yeah naffatun are a bit like cheating.

The 1500+ man sieges you can hold off with just two naffatun and two hashashim on the walls and finally two saracen militia to block the gates ....

Makes you wonder what the devs were smoking when they designed the turk amry roster; they have frigging everything.



Still; when you absolutely positively HAVE to go and kill every mongol and timurid in the open field. ...

Jinetes + Christian guard + Camel gunners

accept no substitute

[DVX BELLORVM]

It seams that all-cavalry army is the best to beat the Mongols.

I've just had a battle against a full stack timurid army near Constantinople. My army was composed of 3 merc horse archers, 1 elephant artillery , 1 elephant gunners and the rest were heavy cavalry (english knights and knights hospitaller). The timurids had a usual mix of cavalry, horse archers, infantry and elephants, including 2 generals.

I decided to ignore their HA for the moment, and executed a full scale cavalry charge on their center. The result was astonishing, the first cavalry wave completely broke their infantry and archers.

Then I sent my HA after their elephants, they were soon running amok.

While my cavalry were finishing what was left on the center, I decided to deal with their horse archers, only to find they were fleeing from the battlefield.

It wasn't a decisive victory, most of their HA and generals survived, but my casualties were very small.

While the Mongols are still a horde, it's very helpful to have a general with the Night attacker trait, so you can pick them one at the time, rather than face a multiple stacks.

[Thurak]

While the Mongols are still a horde, it's very helpful to have a general with the Night attacker trait, so you can pick them one at the time, rather than face a multiple stacks.

In my games all Mongol and Timurids generals have the night-fighter ability...

[Alsn]

In my games all Mongol and Timurids generals have the night-fighter ability...

Well, im not 100% sure on this but does that even count as far as assisiting another nearby army?

I thought it only meant that you can initiate them and get a command bonus.

Edit: To clarify, i believe when you attempt night attacks that nearby armies are unable to assist no matter what but as i said im not 100% sure.

[DVX BELLORVM]

In my games all Mongol and Timurids generals have the night-fighter ability...

Maybe that depends on a difficulty level. In my campaign (M/M) I've seen their generals without night fighter trait. What difficulty level are you playing on?

i believe when you attempt night attacks that nearby armies are unable to assist no matter what but as i said im not 100% sure.

I'm not 100% sure either, but I don't remember ever fighting a night battle against multiple stacks.

[hisn00bness]

'm not 100% sure either, but I don't remember ever fighting a night battle against multiple stacks.

I just had a fight against three timurid stacks whilst attacking at night. difficulty is H/VH so I don't know wether that influences it; but they do reinforce even at night.


hehe was fun too. my hungarian king and a large retinue of Banderium and gold chevroned nobles; taking on 3500 timurids on the plain of which only 1000 came into reinforcement 10 minutes in. I had to retreat to save the king in the end; but managed to kill two generals and take down about 1300 timurid troops as well.


Apparently after that the AI figured it had me on the run; and attacked my full dread and command crown prince on the bridge near sarkel three times the next turn; but thanks to three ribaults; three serpentines; two mercenary elephants and about 500 halberd militia; I annihilated each and every army attempting the crossing down to the last heathen.

Since after the third attack my forces on the bridge didn't look like they could withstand a fourth attempt (lost all my elephants in a desperate attempt to stop the 12 elephant units on the bridge for my serpentines to shoot them down );
I've decided to disband my artillery and foot soldiers now and retreat into the forest behind the crossing; where three full stacks of nobles and knights are hiding and waiting for Timur to make one final mistake.

[Thurak]

If I am not mistaken stacks with a night fighter general support nearby battles fought at night, no matter if it is an offensive or defensive one.

Yesterday two Mongol stacks both attacked Antioch at night and my supporting army without a night-fighter did not help, but the supporting Mongol general must have had night fighter.

In another thread it is mentioned that a five star general will get night fighter... so every Mongol general should have it except, on their very first turn after appearing. That would explain why it is usually (one of) the last trait(s) in the list...

[mbrasher1]

The easiest way to beat the Mongols and Timurids is by defending a city with lots of pikemen or even halberd militia.

Sicily or HRE gets early halberds, followed by pike militia. The garrison in Antioch is usually enough to whip them both