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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default...=178&nid=13106

    There we go again.

    Jeruzalem is a holy city for 3 religions, why on earth do they insist on holding it there? Is this mutual respect? Is it just me or do gay people enjoy being disliked. This is nothing more then a provocation if you ask me, shouldn't expect any pity from me if they are attacked, they pretty much deserve it.

    opinions?

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    So no religious parades should be allowed in San Fran or Sydney?
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Retards. They could do this sort of thing in Tel Aviv or several other cities without trouble, but that's apparently not offensive enough.

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio
    So no religious parades should be allowed in San Fran or Sydney?
    ehhhhhh, are you sure you don't see the difference?

  5. #5
    Guest Stig's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Well they surely shouldn't do any religious parades where I'm living

    Why on earth do they do gay parades anyway? It's not like there are any heterosexual parades ... atleast not here

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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    I respect the statement they are making, and more power to them for choosing to go in this dangerous place.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach
    I respect the statement they are making, and more power to them for choosing to go in this dangerous place.
    The statement that their right to shake their tails is more important then centuries old traditions of millions and millions of people in the world? If they do da boom they have it comming, if you insist on provocing don't cry if it works, almost hoping for it to happen serves them right. There is such a thing as taking it too far, how can they possibly think this aids their cause?

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Tolerance and respect are not one way streets.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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  9. #9
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stig
    Well they surely shouldn't do any religious parades where I'm living

    Why on earth do they do gay parades anyway? It's not like there are any heterosexual parades ... atleast not here
    They started out in Sydney when people still thought that gay bashing was an okay activity.

    It was a way of quite honestly stating that they were queer and that they were proud of it... rather then having to live a dishonest life and be ostracized or worse if they came out of the closet.

    Nowadays in Sydney it is more of a party and parade... like an adult version of St Patricks... beer, frocks and a more wide selection of fairies not just green ones.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    The statement that their right to shake their tails is more important then centuries old traditions of millions and millions of people in the world? If they do da boom they have it comming, if you insist on provocing don't cry if it works, almost hoping for it to happen serves them right. There is such a thing as taking it too far, how can they possibly think this aids their cause?
    Yes, they have the right to Freedom of Speech.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  11. #11
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio
    Tolerance and respect are not one way streets.
    Well actually that is my point.

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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    I agree in principle that they should be able to do it in Jerusalem, too- but considering the situation it's a very, very bad idea. If you were the organizer would you pick a place that's going to provocate the 2 major religions in the area and could very well lead to violence, even if you could do it in other places in Israel without trouble?

    Do you also think it's a good idea to hold an Orange march through an Irish catholic suburb?

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    Guest Stig's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    I agree in principle that they should be able to do it in Jerusalem, too- but considering the situation it's a very, very bad idea. If you were the organizer would you pick a place that's going to provocate the 2 major religions in the area and could very well lead to violence, even if you could do it in other places in Israel without trouble?
    Wanna bet for a crate of beer where the first suicide bomber strikes?

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony
    Well actually that is my point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony
    This is nothing more then a provocation if you ask me, shouldn't expect any pity from me if they are attacked, they pretty much deserve it.
    Funny definition of tolerance and respect that if someone states their sexuality they deserve to be attacked for it.

    I think sexuality lies somewhere between gene and meme, it lies somewhere between ethnic group and religious affiliation in the ability to choose what you belong to.

    Would you think it okay for a Muslim, a Jew or a Christian to be beaten up for it for walking around with their respective holy books?

    Would it be okay for a St Patricks parade to be car bombed?

    A black civil rights march to be set upon?
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

  15. #15
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio
    Funny definition of tolerance and respect that if someone states their sexuality they deserve to be attacked for it.
    What respect are these guys giving religious people? Nothing, it's a deliberate slap in the face.You got me wrong, not because of their sexuality, but because their intention is provocation pure and simple. If they do this they shouldn't be surprised if someone picks up the glove. Should they be legally allowed to do this, yeah, law is law. But why there, out of all places that one? Is your definition of mutual respect 'something we must have for other people'? Millions of people are going to be deeply grieved by this, and all because they want to be the centre of attention. Should it be allowed, yes. Should they want it, hell no. Plenty other places where they can whag their tails, without insulting anyone.

  16. #16
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony
    Well actually that is my point.
    It depends on what you rate higher, the gays' rights to have a parade in any place or the religious peoples' right to not have any gays in their holy place.
    Since almost nobody would think the latter is actually a right and religious people are usually seen as nuts today, guess who wins...


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  17. #17
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar
    It depends on what you rate higher, the gays' rights to have a parade in any place or the religious peoples' right to not have any gays in their holy place.
    Of course gays should be allowed in holy places, that's not the point. It's not a matter of law it's a matter of decency and respect. This is about as decent and respectful as pissing on someone's mother's grave. When you visit a mosk you take of your shoes. When you visit a church you don't yell. When you visit a holy city you behave because it's important for a lot of people.

    Behaving like this in a holy place has nothing to do with respect. In Amsterdam you can do this. In San Fransisco you can do this. So do it there.



    I am not angry because the law allows it, I am angry because they want it in the first place.
    Last edited by KukriKhan; 06-22-2007 at 13:52.

  18. #18
    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony
    What respect are these guys giving religious people? Nothing, it's a deliberate slap in the face.You got me wrong, not because of their sexuality, but because their intention is provocation pure and simple. If they do this they shouldn't be surprised if someone picks up the glove. Should they be legally allowed to do this, yeah, law is law. But why there, out of all places that one? Is your definition of mutual respect 'something we must have for other people'? Millions of people are going to be deeply grieved by this, and all because they want to be the centre of attention. Should it be allowed, yes. Should they want it, hell no. Plenty other places where they can whag their tails, without insulting anyone.

    there...you just answered the question yourself....
    "Should it be allowed, yes. Should they want it, hell no."


    it is not ANYONE´s place to say what other people should want or not want.......if it should be allowed it should be allowed...no IF´s!

    and that my friend...makes this..


    case ******* closed.
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Well, I think if God doesn't want them to dance around in his holy place, he'll surely find a way to rain on their parade...
    Last edited by Husar; 06-21-2007 at 12:20.


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    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Ahh a bit of the good old smiting eh?

    I agree that it's no-ones business what they do. However I would think this unnecessarily provocative.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Well, I find mosquitos in my room unnecessarily provocative - that's why I kill them as good as I can.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

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    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Wink Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar
    Well, I think if God doesn't want them to dance around in his holy place, he'll surely find a way to rain on their parade...
    how the hell did I forgot that!....you´re absolutelly right!

    what better way for God to make his/hers/it´s presence felt then by making it rain ice the size of watermellons on these heathens???

    certainly the fact that this will have to happen in Jerusalem in the middle of the summer will pose no problem for the almighty ....anything less would surelly have to be considered as a pro-gay stance from the "man upstairs" and that wouldn´t be cricket now would it?
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    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Fragony makes a very good argument to the point where I am a hair away from agreeing with him ( the "Behaving like this in a holy place has nothing to do with respect.")

    However my disdain for religion, and thier holy places has trumped my attempt at a reasoned approach to this (again the haze is clearing). I dont have a particular like or dislike for homosexuals, if they want to march and its within thier rights to do so, yep have at it.
    There are few things more annoying than some idiot who has never done anything trying to say definitively how something should be done.

    Sua Sponte

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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odin
    However my disdain for religion, and thier holy places has trumped my attempt at a reasoned approach to this (again the haze is clearing). I dont have a particular like or dislike for homosexuals, if they want to march and its within thier rights to do so, yep have at it.
    That doesn't take away from the fact that excersing the right in this case is an incredibly stupid thing to do. I see it as provocating for the sake of provocating, hence my comparison with the Orange marches.

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    Clan Takiyama Senior Member R'as al Ghul's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache
    Ahh a bit of the good old smiting eh?
    LOL. That sounds like straight out of Terry Pratchett.

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    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec
    That doesn't take away from the fact that excersing the right in this case is an incredibly stupid thing to do. I see it as provocating for the sake of provocating, hence my comparison with the Orange marches.
    thats one way to look at it, or it could be viewed as maximizing the location, and the sentiment to garnish awareness for Gay rights. What better place to illustrate intolerance then at a major religous site?

    It really depends on what side of the coin you want to view.

    Would you and I be discussing this if the parade was in San Fran ?
    There are few things more annoying than some idiot who has never done anything trying to say definitively how something should be done.

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  27. #27
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Well, I think if God doesn't want them to dance around in his holy place, he'll surely find a way to rain on their parade.
    Im afraid thats exactly what may happen. Of course they will claim it was gods will at least that they got murdered.

    These guys wanted to hold a parade in Mecca lol. Guess what. It aint happening. Theres only one reason to hold this parade in Jerusalem and thats to stuff it in the face of religion. Dont these people realise this hurts their cause. Its as dumb as the Palestinians suicide bombing the Israelis. Its counter productive and just pisses every body else off.
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    Amphibious Trebuchet Salesman Member Whacker's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony
    Behaving like this in a holy place has nothing to do with respect. In Amsterdam you can do this. In San Fransisco you can do this. So do it there.
    A correction here to this logic. Jerusalem the city is NOT a holy place. There are several locations in the and around the city that are considered holy in some respects to the 3 religions in question, but the city itself is not one major shrine or temple. I saw no reference in the article of the path taking them directly past the Wailing Wall or anything along those lines. Even if it did, I doubt I'd care.

    As for the view of this being "provacative", my thoughts are that I disagree. The city does indeed have multiple sites of religion significance to the 3 major monotheistic religions, so what? It sounds like they are making a point to do this in that city to demonstrate solidarity and determination. The whole "this is provacative and they are asking to be attacked" argument sounds awfully close to the "she got raped because she was dressing like that" one.

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  29. #29
    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Theres only one reason to hold this parade in Jerusalem and thats to stuff it in the face of religion.
    How about reason 1a. Press coverage? Maybe i'm jaded from living in Mass but the gay rights movement has some savvy people who understand the value of press.

    Again, we wouldnt be talking about this if it was in San Fran
    There are few things more annoying than some idiot who has never done anything trying to say definitively how something should be done.

    Sua Sponte

  30. #30
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: r.e.s.p.e.c.t.

    How about reason 1a. Press coverage? Maybe i'm jaded from living in Mass but the gay rights movement has some savvy people who understand the value of press.
    And your missing my point that this hurts them not helps them. Most people find this repulsive. I would have the same opinion if say Howard Stern were to hold a parade with the kind of people he has on his show. You dont need to parade your sexuality about in the streets, I dont care what your sexual persuasion is.
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