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Thread: Age and Wisdom

  1. #1
    Στωικισμός Member Bijo's Avatar
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    Default Age and Wisdom

    age --> wisdom: true?
    Emotion, passions, and desires are, thus peace is not.
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Only if you learn from your experiences and take the right lessons from them.

    I would say however that most people do get wiser with age. Though the young always think they are wiser.
    Last edited by Gawain of Orkeny; 06-21-2007 at 15:39.
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    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    not true....

    case in point: politicians

    considering that most politicians only get to positions of power after they are 40 (cases of prime ministers or presidents of younger age are rare) and considering that these people are complete morons....

    if these people got wiser as they grew old.......how stupid would they have to be when they were young? Is such a thing even possible? I mean how would such people survive? they would surelly have forgot to inhale and exhale or something
    Last edited by Ronin; 06-21-2007 at 15:45.
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  4. #4
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    define wisdom?
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  5. #5
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    considering that most politicians only get to positions of power after they are 40 (cases of prime ministers or presidents of younger age are rare) and considering that these people are complete morons....

    if these people got wiser as they grew old.......how stupid would they have to be when they were young?
    Well obviously even stupider so you havent proven a thing They had to work up to being a politician. Or maybe your right its down to being a politician
    I stick by my post however. Dont forget the disclaimer

    Only if you learn from your experiences and take the right lessons from them.
    Politicians certainly do not fall into this category
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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    age ≠ wisdom

    I've known plenty of people who became less wise as they got older. It all depends on how you react to and learn from experience. Or don't, as the case may be.
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    Medical Welshman in London. Senior Member Big King Sanctaphrax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Not if you get dementia.
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  8. #8
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Or like me alzheimer's
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    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Bijo
    age --> wisdom: true?
    No.

    Events that garnish expirence, that in the future, may be drawn upon in reflection and applied to a current circumstance = wisdom (IMHO)

    This theory dosent require one to be older, it just requires expirence, however i concede that with age your opportunity to expirence more is greater.
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Its like asking do you get smarter with age. Not quite the same thing. If you dont take your lessons to heart no. you wont get any wiser or smarter. This is a no brainer of a question that IMO I said all that needs to be said in my first post. No one has added anything new here.

    Now that you have all benefited from my infinite wisdom this thread may be closed
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    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Gaining experience certainly helps. But you must be able to learn from your experiences as well.

    And common sense is also a necessary prerequisite imo. If you have a decent amount of common sense, you can see and understand alot of things already without really experiencing them.

    Off course, one can argue that common sense = wisdom.
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    Guest Stig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    @Ronin, try running a country

    I think experience does help, but if you want to call that being wise, I dunno.

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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    "Nature is full of freaks, and now puts an old head on young shoulders, and then a young heart beating under fourscore winters." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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    Στωικισμός Member Bijo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    The responses have gladdened me.

    In real life I have / had been arguing with those of old age (about anything) and when I use logic and experience of the things I have learnt and recall the deepness I have had and I know they err (and sometimes they themselves know so too), they usually turn to the argument that with age wisdom comes.

    I then inform them they are in error and they -- wanting to be correct -- keep up silly arguments based on (their belief of) 'age --> wisdom'. The fools.

    But it taught me another wisdom, a truism actually: it is difficult to change most old peoples' minds.
    Last edited by Bijo; 06-22-2007 at 10:02.
    Emotion, passions, and desires are, thus peace is not.
    Emotion: you have it or it has you.

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    Pay heed to my story named The Thief in the Mead Hall.
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    Check out some of my music.

  15. #15
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Meme's seem to be territorial. Once an idea has taken hold it takes alot more effort to replace it then it took to originally plant one.

    Sometimes part of learning is the ability to unlearn.
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    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    The older I grow the more I distrust the familiar doctrine that age brings wisdom.
    H.L. Mencken

    Perhaps one has to be very old before one learns to be amused rather than shocked.
    Pearl S. Buck

    I agree with both.

    It's not the years, it's the mileage.
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  17. #17
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Bijo, get a heart that's not made of stone.

    "You're all idiots to think you could learn from your experience, I prefer to learn from the mistakes of others to prevent making mistakes myself." - Otto von Bismarck (translated by your humble Husar because it's only on the german page of wikiquote)


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  18. #18
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin
    not true....

    case in point: politicians

    considering that most politicians only get to positions of power after they are 40 (cases of prime ministers or presidents of younger age are rare) and considering that these people are complete morons....

    if these people got wiser as they grew old.......how stupid would they have to be when they were young? Is such a thing even possible? I mean how would such people survive? they would surelly have forgot to inhale and exhale or something
    Have you actually seen the youth parties of the main parties?
    Appearently breathing doesn't require much brainpower.

    Husar, I've seen that one as a proverb (although it was formulated that the stupid ones learns from thier own mistakes and the wise ones from others).
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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  19. #19
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Ive said this before but wisdom comes when you realise that the more you learn makes you realize just how little you really know. If you are wise when you are young chances are you will get wiser as you age. So in general yes age does equal wisdom. If not you certainly are doing something wrong.
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  20. #20
    Στωικισμός Member Bijo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar
    Bijo, get a heart that's not made of stone.
    Essentially I already have one not made of stone. It is an engine-like apparatus constructed from metal-like tools, iron, electrical wires, and so on, that could be referred to as "heart." But the point is: it is not made of stone.
    Last edited by Bijo; 06-22-2007 at 14:44.
    Emotion, passions, and desires are, thus peace is not.
    Emotion: you have it or it has you.

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    Pay heed to my story named The Thief in the Mead Hall.
    No.

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    Check out some of my music.

  21. #21
    Probably Drunk Member Reverend Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Age does not necessarily grant wisdom. It all depends on if you bother to learn.

    However, the reverse equation, younger=dumber, does hold up pretty well.

    Just look at me in the Beatles thread... getting pissed because I am being told to respect a musical group... that's why I stopped posting there, I was acting an ass.

  22. #22
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Bijo
    When I use logic and experience of the things I have learnt and recall the deepness I have had and I know they err (and sometimes they themselves know so too), they usually turn to the argument that with age wisdom comes.
    This sounds like more of a last refuge sort of thing than a serious argument. But to be frank, I don't know anyone who reacts well to being told they are wrong. There's an art to that sort of discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bijo
    I then inform them they are in error and they -- wanting to be correct -- keep up silly arguments based on (their belief of) 'age --> wisdom'. The fools.
    Yeah, this is the sort of thing I'm talking about. Nobody likes to be "informed they are in error." One has to be a bit delicate when correcting another human being, even when they are obviously wrong. And as often as not, they're not going to change their minds right then. It's much better to ask questions, drop facts, and let their minds chug it over in their own good time. Unless the situation is life-threatening, there's no rush.

    One thing that can come with age: patience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bijo
    But it taught me another wisdom, a truism actually: it is difficult to change most old peoples' minds.
    Why restrict this truism to old people? It's hard to change anyone's mind. Look at how you've posted in the SF/drama thread in the Frontroom. Multiple people came back at you with intelligent, informed critiques of your initial post, and you didn't modify your position in any meaningful way. You aren't old, are you?

    A mulish attitude is not the preserve of the aged, and you don't need to be advanced in years to plant your heels in the ground.
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  23. #23
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Ive said this before but wisdom comes when you realise that the more you learn makes you realize just how little you really know.
    I like the Oscar Wilde line: "I am not young enough to know everything".

  24. #24
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    I then inform them they are in error and they -- wanting to be correct -- keep up silly arguments based on (their belief of) 'age --> wisdom'. The fools.
    It works both ways young fella I cant tell you how many times I argue with my son about things and he says your old fashioned . It dont work that way any more. I got news for you both. I said the same exact thing to my dad. And you know what? He was almost always right. Human nature doesnt change. The young think we old people are senile and out of touch and we think you just havent had enough experience to be really wise yet. Nothing as they say beats experience. You usually learn more from your mistakes than you accomplishments. So yes wisdom once more does come with age.
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  25. #25
    Στωικισμός Member Bijo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Why restrict this truism to old people?
    I was referring to them in real life situations, thus the truism was applied accordingly. It is no restriction.



    EDIT: excluded the unnecessary word 'because'
    Last edited by Bijo; 06-22-2007 at 18:46.
    Emotion, passions, and desires are, thus peace is not.
    Emotion: you have it or it has you.

    ---

    Pay heed to my story named The Thief in the Mead Hall.
    No.

    ---

    Check out some of my music.

  26. #26
    Στωικισμός Member Bijo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    This sounds like more of a last refuge sort of thing than a serious argument. But to be frank, I don't know anyone who reacts well to being told they are wrong. There's an art to that sort of discussion.


    Yeah, this is the sort of thing I'm talking about. Nobody likes to be "informed they are in error." One has to be a bit delicate when correcting another human being, even when they are obviously wrong. And as often as not, they're not going to change their minds right then. It's much better to ask questions, drop facts, and let their minds chug it over in their own good time. Unless the situation is life-threatening, there's no rush.
    Yes, yes indeed. It is quite correct. I must admit there have been times I noticed people after some time (weeks, or months, etc.) and what I told them before suddenly was so obvious to them.

    But that is not enough. It shouldn't just be about... "changing minds" as if people are changing (irrelevant) "beliefs or opinions" (for it really appears like it, as if having to get used to another belief which they have to get comfortable with); they should use logic (rationality, reason) in the first place and rid themselves of the irrelevant things that only distract them in false ways -- that only distort their minds.

    If they did that, there wouldn't even be a need to... "carefully tweak them" and let them "get used to an idea" to finally after a long time arrive at the obvious truth.
    Last edited by Bijo; 06-23-2007 at 00:03.
    Emotion, passions, and desires are, thus peace is not.
    Emotion: you have it or it has you.

    ---

    Pay heed to my story named The Thief in the Mead Hall.
    No.

    ---

    Check out some of my music.

  27. #27
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Bijo
    Essentially I already have one not made of stone. It is an engine-like apparatus constructed from metal-like tools, iron, electrical wires, and so on, that could be referred to as "heart." But the point is: it is not made of stone.
    I already explained it in the chat, but logic can also be used to spot metaphors.

    There's another quote I'd like to add:

    "I don't believe that people choose to be stupid." - N. M. Vonken


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  28. #28
    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Too soon old, too late smart.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

  29. #29
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    "Generals are always ready to fight the last war"

    Age does bring wisdom, but it also brings other things, such as an inability to change, dogmatic views and a belief that one is wiser than is the case. WW1 is a great example of the inability of those in charge to see what modern warfare was - I'd bet not a single man in the trenches had any great store for cavalry.

    Innovation is usually the remit of the young, who can see new ways of doing things. They are also better at altering things for new uses.

    As the world moves on faster, the pace at which knowledge is eroded increases. My father has less experience with many things today than I do as I use them more and started doing so earlier. Many of the things that we is far more familiar with are not in use.

    Last edited by rory_20_uk; 06-23-2007 at 02:32.
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  30. #30

    Default Re: Age and Wisdom

    Age -> experience.
    From that, one could derive wisdom, but it's not a given.

    However, I tend to agree with rory and disagree with Lemur, mental inflexibility seems to be more a trait of the old, rather than the young. I see that in myself, as well (in the sense that I'm trying to analyze how I used to think/feel about things several years ago, and how I do now - and I've been becoming less and less flexible over time, despite the fact that I've always been aware of it and been trying to avoid it...).
    Therapy helps, but screaming obscenities is cheaper.

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