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Thread: I've Heard of Lame Ducks, But This Is Ridiculous

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  1. #1
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: I've Heard of Lame Ducks, But This Is Ridiculous

    Maybe because the media is to afraid to say anything positive?
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

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    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: I've Heard of Lame Ducks, But This Is Ridiculous

    I can only speak for my own dissatisfaction. The president has a proven track record of attempting to be a centrist, (laugh if you wish) with a very aggressive foreign policy. He is also the strongest advocate of corporate welfare this nation has ever seen. Say what you want about Clinton, in many ways he walked his walk of reducing agricultural and industrial subsidies.

    When you couple this with rampant arrogance, you just have a formula for disaster. Forget about the public at large or the party faithful, the president appears to have no sense of responsibility to his own party leadership. He's been shafting the Republicans in the House for 7 years now. The Senate has been like a billionaires club, naturally they've been more in line with the White House agenda. But even with them, the president doesn't bother to make any explanations or defenses of his policy.

    And frankly, the whole Alberto Gonzalez saga has become an albatross around W's neck. It really paints him in a bad light. Regardless of whether the Attorney General did anything illegal, he did much that has been patently stupid and grossly incompetent. The president has decided to play it safe and not risk another AG confirmation hearing with the Democrats in charge. But since he has this bad habit of not bothering to explain himself, just ruling by fiat, he has allowed the Democrats to paint this a sense of misguided loyalty and some questionable judgement on the part of the president himself. In truth, I get the impression that Gonzalez is persona non grata in the White House these days, but given the humiliation and spectacle another AG confirmation hearing would mean, Bush has decided to see this one through. I predict in 6 months, when the Dems are tired of playing the bash Berto in the media game, will start some process to actually force Gonzalez to resign. If that's not humiliating enough, I stronly suspect that if Bush or Cheney say one word to defend him, they'll start impeachment proceedings as well.
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: I've Heard of Lame Ducks, But This Is Ridiculous

    Frankly, the part that I find surprising is that 25% of the country still thinks he's doing an acceptable job. Don't they have television in Alabama?
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
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    EB II Romani Consul Suffectus Member Zaknafien's Avatar
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    Default Re: I've Heard of Lame Ducks, But This Is Ridiculous

    the thing that really upset me was the other day when King George said something along the lines of "They [the senate] can have their no confience votes if they want.-- (and here is me summarizing), but I will still do whatever I want."

    Doesnt he know how our system works? The man is either insane or thinks he's some sort of god-king.


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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: I've Heard of Lame Ducks, But This Is Ridiculous

    Uhm, Zak, I think you're the one who doesn't know how the system works. No president has ever asked the Senate permission to conduct their daily affairs. Nor have they adopted policy on the sole basis that the Senate (or the House for that matter) told them to. The executive branch is its own branch and is supposed to operate independently.

    The reason why I think Gonzalez is a moron and should be fired for incompetence is because he started bending over for the Senate in the first place. The whole thing stems from the dismissal of US Attorneys. All the Attorney General had to say was "they serve at the whim of the president" and that was the end of the story. If Bush wakes up and decides any US attorney with a "T", a "P" or an "R" in their name should be replaced, he is entirely within his rights. The Senate's role of advise and consent begins and ends at confirmation. Gonzalez screwed the pooch when he came up with this cockamamie 'they were incompetent' story (they weren't, but that was irrelevant) and then tried (unsuccessfully) to coeerce all his underlings to back his lame story.

    Frankly, I was no big fan of hers, but on this particular issue, Janet Reno handled it exactly right. She kept sitting down in front of the Senate panel each and every time they summoned her, and said, in much more polite and legalistic terms "None of your business" to all of their inquires. She was right to say that to Orrin Hatch back then, and Gonzalez should have said it to Patrick Leahy now.

    There is no oversight power of the Presidency by Congress, at least not on day to day business. It's bad enough we invented this role for Scotus. We don't need to invent it for Congress too.
    Last edited by Don Corleone; 06-22-2007 at 20:20.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: I've Heard of Lame Ducks, But This Is Ridiculous

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaknafien
    the thing that really upset me was the other day when King George said something along the lines of "They [the senate] can have their no confience votes if they want.-- (and here is me summarizing), but I will still do whatever I want."

    Doesnt he know how our system works? The man is either insane or thinks he's some sort of god-king.
    That is how the system works though. No-confidence votes are nothing more than meaningless political theater. It was just Democrats pandering to their base. Had they actually been serious about it, they could have moved to impeach Gonzales- but they weren't and they didn't.
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: I've Heard of Lame Ducks, But This Is Ridiculous

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    That is how the system works though. No-confidence votes are nothing more than meaningless political theater. It was just Democrats pandering to their base. Had they actually been serious about it, they could have moved to impeach Gonzales- but they weren't and they didn't.
    Too far out from the election, check back in February.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: I've Heard of Lame Ducks, But This Is Ridiculous

    This is nothing , the good old Democratic congress has hit the lowest approval rating in history at 14%

    Can single digits be next?
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

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    Member Member KafirChobee's Avatar
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    Cool Re: I've Heard of Lame Ducks, But This Is Ridiculous

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaknafien
    the thing that really upset me was the other day when King George said something along the lines of "They [the senate] can have their no confience votes if they want.-- (and here is me summarizing), but I will still do whatever I want."

    Doesnt he know how our system works? The man is either insane or thinks he's some sort of god-king.
    Er, Zak when you voted for him twice did you realize he was getting messages from god? Bush, believes he is doing god's work - god being a billionaire in Texas. ;} Not picking on y'all btw - but, fool me once shame on him ....

    It was fear that got him elected the second time (he wasn't elected the first time, the Supreme Court gave it to him) - do we all remember the red alerts every other week? Without any real causes being given for them - then after the election, they stopped. He got the soccer Moms to vote for him by instilling the fear the Kerry couldn't do a better job protecting them from those islamic-fascists (say what?).

    And, no he doesnot know how the system works, nor do his advisors. The Bushys believe they are above the Constitution, above the Law of the land, and are shielded from any form of prosecution by "Executive Privilege" (just as Nixon did). It isn't arrogance so much as ignorance (of the system - guess things work differently in Texas), and the belief in that the privileges he was raised under raise him above the laws that govern the common man. It's alot like Paris Hilton thinking she was too.
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: I've Heard of Lame Ducks, But This Is Ridiculous

    Quote Originally Posted by KafirChobee
    It was fear that got him elected the second time (he wasn't elected the first time, the Supreme Court gave it to him) - do we all remember the red alerts every other week? Without any real causes being given for them - then after the election, they stopped. He got the soccer Moms to vote for him by instilling the fear the Kerry couldn't do a better job protecting them from those islamic-fascists (say what?)..
    If the Democrats had put forward a halfway believable candidate I would have jumped ship. I would have taken Lieberman or Wesley Clark over Bush. I would have seriously considered Gephardt or Bob Graham, men who know how to take action when they eventually have to.

    But I knew fairly early on the Democrats had laid a turd in the way of offering choices. They asked John Kerry what he would have done differently on 9/11. He said "I would have called our allies. I would have built a coalition. I would have gotten assurances it was okay to proceed...."

    In other words, he would have asked permission. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Sorry, I could have forgiven a lot from Kerry, in terms of spending and liberal social policies (wouldn't have liked it, but I would have tolerated it). But no, asking for permission to defend ourselves after 9/11? What was he thinking?

    You're right, it was fear. Fear that John Kerry would refuse to act, because he's more concerned with what his buddies in the UN think of him then with the lives of American citizens.
    Last edited by Don Corleone; 06-22-2007 at 20:53.
    "A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
    Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.

    "Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
    Strike for the South

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    Amphibious Trebuchet Salesman Member Whacker's Avatar
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    Default Re: I've Heard of Lame Ducks, But This Is Ridiculous

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    In other words, he would have asked permission. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Sorry, I could have forgiven a lot from Kerry, in terms of spending and liberal social policies (wouldn't have liked it, but I would have tolerated it). But no, asking for permission to defend ourselves after 9/11? What was he thinking?
    This is a completely fair point. The question I would ask you (no we probably shouldn't get into this, just for consideration) is at what point does it stop being self defense and more about pushing our agenda in places we don't belong?

    You're right, it was fear. Fear that John Kerry would refuse to act, because he's more concerned with what his buddies in the UN think of him then with the lives of American citizens.
    Personally, given Bush's first term, I would much rather have had some guy who's rather indecisive and not inclined to get us neck-deep in it halfway around the world than someone who cheerfully ordered such actions. I realize I'm focusing heavily on one or two particular issues and simplifying some things, but I think my point is there. This is exactly why I didn't vote for him the first time or the second.

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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: I've Heard of Lame Ducks, But This Is Ridiculous

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Corleone
    I would have taken Lieberman or Wesley Clark over Bush.
    I was really interested in Clark at the time. If you haven't noticed, I have a long history of picking losers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South
    Os there a point where if he drops below say 20% we can exile him?
    The tribe has spoken ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    This is nothing , the good old Democratic congress has hit the lowest approval rating in history at 14%
    Thank you for channeling the spirit of Matt Drudge for today ...
    Last edited by Lemur; 06-22-2007 at 21:41.

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