Getting down with the boys.

[Fragony]

Well that ended unfortunate. Maybe I should have said things nicer, sensitive people after all. Of course we are talking about the gay parade in Jeruzalem. But I wasn't anymore, every time I think we have hit the bottom someone always has a shovel at hand to make the bottom even deeper.

So after the participation of 11 year olds on a boat in a gay-parade was entireily da bomb according to our progressive members, 11 year old can be surprisingly mature after all and know everything there is to know about sexuality and would never be influenced by adults making them think they are something they are not. But as always this wasn't enough. I got a boat and I am not afraid to use it.

So now, they are filling it up with gay people with down syndrome. Hmmm, down -syndrome, isn't that that condition where you never mature mentally, never really getting older then 8, 10 at most. Of course people with down syndrome aren't very impressionable, if you tell them their a chicken they don't start picking at the ground trying to find some grain. This is all perfectly fine isn't it? So am I being homophobic again or is this all just mental abuse?

[Andres]

Well that ended unfortunate. Maybe I should have said things nicer, sensitive people after all. Of course we are talking about the gay parade in Jeruzalem. But I wasn't anymore, every time I think we have hit the bottom someone always has a shovel at hand to make the bottom even deeper.

So after the participation of 11 year olds on a boat in a gay-parade was entireily da bomb according to our progressive members, 11 year old can be surprisingly mature after all and know everything there is to know about sexuality and would never be influenced by adults making them think they are something they are not. But as always this wasn't enough. I got a boat and I am not afraid to use it.

So now, they are filling it up with gay people with down syndrome. Hmmm, down -syndrome, isn't that that condition where you never mature mentally, never really getting older then 8, 10 at most. Of course people with down syndrome aren't very impressionable, if you tell them their a chicken they don't start picking at the ground trying to find some grain. This is all perfectly fine isn't it? So am I being homophobic again or is this all just mental abuse?

Can you provide us with a link/links to your source(s)?

If you want people to debate/discuss about this, you should at least allow them to check the story for themselves.

Thanks in advance.

[Fragony]

Well they will have to babelfish it,

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6...ten.html?p=7,2

only in dutch, only in Holland.

[Ser Clegane]

It would be great - when you start a thread about such a topic - if you could at least paraphrase the most important point instead of us having to bablefish an article.

What kind of intitution (the boat) are you talking about?

Who runs it?

Who decides that the disabled people who seem to live there as "gay"?

[Fragony]

Dunno, the usual suspects I guess. Gay parade is held every year, in Amsterdam they cruise with boats on the grachts.

Who decides wether or not these people are gay, well, that sums up nicely don't you think? They are mentally disabled, and like 11 year olds they are impressionable. That is why I file it under mental abuse, do you believe an 11 year old or a person with down-syndrome can truly make up it's own mind about these things? They aren't helped, they are pushed into a certain direction, and I don't exactly think the motives of the people pushing them are that noble.

[KukriKhan]

Here's an English article on the topic, that covers much of what I think Fragony objects to.

I don't see anything about disabled kids, though. That's a newer twist.

[Andres]

It would be great - when you start a thread about such a topic - if you could at least paraphrase the most important point instead of us having to bablefish an article.

What kind of intitution (the boat) are you talking about?

Who runs it?

Who decides that the disabled people who seem to live there as "gay"?

Far from perfect, but here's a rough translation of the article about the yearly Amsterdam Gay Parade:

We already had a boat with minor gays on the yearly parade.
This year, for the first time, there will also be a boat filled with mentally handicapped (?) gays.

The Amsterdam mental institiution "Cordaan" has agreed to allow two boats during the extravagant gay parade. Not only mentally handicapped people will be on the boat, but also people suffering from mental diseases and older people.

The COC (apparantly a Dutch organisation protecting the rights and interests of gays in the Netherlands) is very pleased with the participation of Cordaan. "This is absolutely a good iniative", the president (of the COC), Frank Dalen said.

According to mister Dalen, there's still much work to do for gays in the mental care area.

By allowing the "Cordaan boats" to participate on the parade, Van Dalen expects homosexuality in this branche will become more debatable.

The yearly boat parade will take place from the 2nd to the 5th of August.

[Stig]

Since it's the Telegraaf, which can be called The Dutch Bild Zeitung or The Dutch Sun, I wouldn't go into the article too deeply, it's all blown up anyway.

[Adrian II]

So am I being homophobic again or is this all just mental abuse?

You are being homophobic again. This Parade is a party, not an infectious disease. Stop panicking for a change.

It is a celebration of gay rights and awareness and many non-gays participate or support it. I've told you before I have been on one of those boats regardless of my own sexual preferences, and I had a heck of a time. I have never had so much fun at a public manifestation as I had that day. Nobody forced me into anything, force being anathema to the whole thing. Even the right-wing paper you refer to does not blow it out of proportion. The Parade is part and parcel of the Amsterdam cultural landscape and it is here to stay.

As to the mentally handicapped, it is still too often assumed that their sexual inclinations are exclusively heterosexual. If we allow some of them to marry, why shouldn't we allow some to participate in this Parade? We allow mentally handicapped to participate in religious ceremonies too, don't we? No reason to curtail that either.

[Fragony]

I've told you before I have been on one of those boats regardless of my own sexual preferences, and I had a heck of a time.

About time they had a boat for heterosexual gays, this vulnerable group is too often forgotten

[Louis VI the Fat]

I have been on one of those boats regardless of my own sexual preferences,

Nobody forced me into anything

Yes, but what we want to know is if anybody forced anything into you...

b) why arnt there any heterosexual parades

Mainstream society is one big heterosexual parade. And rather exhibitionist at that.


About these mentally challenged. I am not sure what to think of their sexuality in general. I mean, in a clinical, psychological sense. I simply lack the knowledge about their affliction(s).
They are adults, and therefore I assume they have fully developed sexual feelings. On the other hand, they are, by definition, incapable of forming informed decisions of their own free will like other adults. So there's a problem.

However, I do think that down's syndrome or other afflictions don't affect sexual orientation. And Frag, homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality. It is not an evil desire that you trick people into. Whatever opinion I have (or not have) of how mentally challenged people's sex life should be, at least I think we shouldn't force it to be heterosexual.

[Stig]

Yes, but what we want to know is if anybody forced anything into you...

[Adrian II]

Yes, but what we want to know is if anybody forced anything into you...

I wasn't manhandled, if that is what you mean.

[Strike For The South]

So yyou were the ENforcer?

[Fragony]

On the other hand, they are, by definition, incapable of forming informed decisions of their own free will like other adults. So there's a problem.

That's the problem, and this is also true for the kids. I am worried that they are pushed into something. Great to meet people who have all the answers.

[Adrian II]

Most mentally handicapped can make their own choices and lead their own lives, although all need a degree of shelter depending on their capacities. The group that participates in the Parade does so at its own request and the organisation is very careful about who to invite. Like the large majority of floats theirs will not sport half-naked transsexuals and love Gods in dayglow thongs.

Sheesh what a big to do about nothing. Why don't you go and watch the Parade for a change, see what it is really about. You will be surprised how relaxed and innnocent and basically bourgeois the whole thing is.

[Bijo]

Most mentally handicapped can make their own choices and lead their own lives, although all need a degree of shelter depending on their capacities. The group that participates in the Parade does so at its own request and the organisation is very careful about who to invite. Like the large majority of floats theirs will not sport half-naked transsexuals and love Gods in dayglow thongs.

Sheesh what a big to do about nothing. Why don't you go and watch the Parade for a change, see what it is really about. You will be surprised how relaxed and innnocent and basically bourgeois the whole thing is.

I do not think Fragony capable -- or wanting -- to even come near that boat

[Fragony]

I have worked with people with down syndrome as a volunteer, and it is my experience that they can not. The idea of protecting the weak should have you slipping of your chair with humanitarian goodwill, it's a vulnerable group after all. Maybe I am getting too much in too little time, and ok maybe I am homophobic but I think there is a difference between homosexuals and 'fags' (sorry mods, can't think of another term), some 'fags' seem to have a dayjob pushing the limits just for the sake of pushing it.

[Tribesman]

I have worked with people with down syndrome as a volunteer, and it is my experience that they can not.

Considering your offensive comments about people with downs and your apparent lack of knowledge about the condition I find that really believable

[Fragony]

Considering your offensive comments about people with downs and your apparent lack of knowledge about the condition I find that really believable

Well I only did it to insult them, I strongly believe in babystepping the long road and you have to start somewhere.

[Fragony]

Sigh.....it just never stops. german 14 year olds get an important new discipline at school, how to pick up gays. Of course this is to ehhhhh, I really dunno

We are all homosexuals, let's not be gay about it.