Getting down with the boys.

[Stig]

Yes, but what we want to know is if anybody forced anything into you...

[Adrian II]

Yes, but what we want to know is if anybody forced anything into you...

I wasn't manhandled, if that is what you mean.

[Strike For The South]

So yyou were the ENforcer?

[Fragony]

On the other hand, they are, by definition, incapable of forming informed decisions of their own free will like other adults. So there's a problem.

That's the problem, and this is also true for the kids. I am worried that they are pushed into something. Great to meet people who have all the answers.

[Adrian II]

Most mentally handicapped can make their own choices and lead their own lives, although all need a degree of shelter depending on their capacities. The group that participates in the Parade does so at its own request and the organisation is very careful about who to invite. Like the large majority of floats theirs will not sport half-naked transsexuals and love Gods in dayglow thongs.

Sheesh what a big to do about nothing. Why don't you go and watch the Parade for a change, see what it is really about. You will be surprised how relaxed and innnocent and basically bourgeois the whole thing is.

[Bijo]

Most mentally handicapped can make their own choices and lead their own lives, although all need a degree of shelter depending on their capacities. The group that participates in the Parade does so at its own request and the organisation is very careful about who to invite. Like the large majority of floats theirs will not sport half-naked transsexuals and love Gods in dayglow thongs.

Sheesh what a big to do about nothing. Why don't you go and watch the Parade for a change, see what it is really about. You will be surprised how relaxed and innnocent and basically bourgeois the whole thing is.

I do not think Fragony capable -- or wanting -- to even come near that boat

[Fragony]

I have worked with people with down syndrome as a volunteer, and it is my experience that they can not. The idea of protecting the weak should have you slipping of your chair with humanitarian goodwill, it's a vulnerable group after all. Maybe I am getting too much in too little time, and ok maybe I am homophobic but I think there is a difference between homosexuals and 'fags' (sorry mods, can't think of another term), some 'fags' seem to have a dayjob pushing the limits just for the sake of pushing it.

[Tribesman]

I have worked with people with down syndrome as a volunteer, and it is my experience that they can not.

Considering your offensive comments about people with downs and your apparent lack of knowledge about the condition I find that really believable

[Fragony]

Considering your offensive comments about people with downs and your apparent lack of knowledge about the condition I find that really believable

Well I only did it to insult them, I strongly believe in babystepping the long road and you have to start somewhere.

[Fragony]

Sigh.....it just never stops. german 14 year olds get an important new discipline at school, how to pick up gays. Of course this is to ehhhhh, I really dunno

We are all homosexuals, let's not be gay about it.

[Fragony]

Oh yeah, background. Well we aren't talking about gay children here, but (still) heterosexual kids. They have to roleplay, a game where they pick up gay people. Hold hands and such. Maybe a peck on the cheek? A hand on the knee? These skills must be carefully nursed after all. Nope, no pressure whatsoever

Soooooooo this is all good again huh?

[Banquo's Ghost]

Oh yeah, background. Well we aren't talking about gay children here, but (still) heterosexual kids. They have to roleplay, a game where they pick up gay people. Hold hands and such. Maybe a peck on the cheek? A hand on the knee? These skills must be carefully nursed after all. Nope, no pressure whatsoever

Soooooooo this is all good again huh?

Honestly Fragony, you need to relax.

Homosexual preference is an inbuilt drive. It cannot be learned or imposed.

If that were the case, the entire US Penitential system would be turning out ex-convicts with an excellent fashion sense who immediately turned to flower-arranging and singing a capella on release.

[Fragony]

Honestly Fragony, you need to relax.

Homosexual preference is an inbuilt drive. It cannot be learned or imposed.

Then what purpose does this serve, let's start there. What has this to do with raising awareness, that is the aim of course. When I get kids I send them to Saudi Arabia.

[Ser Clegane]

Oh yeah, background. Well we aren't talking about gay children here, but (still) heterosexual kids. They have to roleplay, a game where they pick up gay people. Hold hands and such. Maybe a peck on the cheek? A hand on the knee? These skills must be carefully nursed after all. Nope, no pressure whatsoever

Soooooooo this is all good again huh?

You got that from the B.Z.?

[Fragony]

You got that from the B.Z.?

Nope here.

http://www.hln.be/hlns/cache/det/art...bron=homeArt11

This Jürgen Zöllner, who is he? He gay himselve or just an activist? Would be very interested to know.

[Ser Clegane]

he is the senator for education, science and research in the Berlin government

[Banquo's Ghost]

Then what purpose does this serve, let's start there. What has this to do with raising awareness, that is the aim of course.

One would imagine it helps young people normalise the sight of same-sex couples. In an ideal world, they wouldn't need the roleplay to do this because gay people would not be demonised and children would be exposed to so many negative stereotypes.

Personally, I don't think the roleplay process you have described has much value, but I am certain it won't turn a potentially heterosexual child into a homosexual one, any more than making the little girls and little boys hold hands in pairs will make them turn out to be happily married hetero couples.

Crikey, in my day (very dim and distant past ) any contact with girls was explicitly frowned upon, and before the age of about eleven, my friends and I would have avoided touching girls like the plague. The nuns told us that girls were pretty close to the spawn of the devil. Such indoctrination didn't linger long after normal proclivities kicked in.

You can't tell someone what their sexuality must be. You can impose prejudices and strictures to confine people to a societal norm and make them very unhappy.

I simply don't see why you feel so threatened by people expressing themselves. Since homosexuals don't appear to be mandating you to follow their choices (in marked contrast to your apparent position) what's the problem? I have several gay friends, two of whom chatted me up before we became friends. I took it as a compliment. Never once did I feel threatened in my own sexuality by them, their friends, or the parties they took me to.

I don't understand the fears, truly. I'd like to try and get my head round it, if you will try and explain.

[Fragony]

From the social democratic party, who would have thought. Well he isn't the one behind it, school itselve, no bigger idiots then idiots that work on schools. So is this actually true because I can hardly believe it. Would also be nice for those that are no doubt going to defend this that they aren't defending a hoax.

[Fragony]

I don't understand the fears, truly. I'd like to try and get my head round it, if you will try and explain.

Well a school should teach math and things like that, not force kids to hold hands and force them to act like gays. Just getting a bit too much. Here we have gay people that just tell about it in front of the class, that is good. This is not, it's pushy, patronising to the extreme, and it just serves zero purpose.

[Strike For The South]

wow. If someone tried to do that here he would get pumped full of lead. Good to see yall are so progressive

[Fragony]

sniff sniff, there is at least one. Kinda suprised how slow this is going, must all be waiting for AdrianII and Louis to tell them what position to take

[Ser Clegane]

So is this actually true because I can hardly believe it. Would also be nice for those that are no doubt going to defend this that they aren't defending a hoax.

The only news source I found this mentioned in is the B.Z. (your Dutch article also seems to be based on the B.Z. article as it basically seems to be a summarized version).
I am not sure how relevant this really is as the article only refers to learning materials that are offered by the "Intitute for School and Media Berlin-Brandenburg" and are recommended for students in 9th grade and upwards - so these are materials that could be used by schools in Berlin and Brandenburg. The article gives no information about any schools that actually use these materials and I doubt that these roleplays are part of the mandatory curriculum.

Considering the nature of the B.Z. it is not unlikely that this is actually a non-issue.

I have to admit though that in 9th grade I would not have been particularly happy to participate in such roleplays (the B.Z. article shows to examples of the situations for the roleplays).

[Husar]

That's very nice, kinda aestethic. Now if it were two men I'd think exactly the opposite.

What does that tell us?(apart from the fact that I'm not asexual...)

[doc_bean]

I have to admit though that in 9th grade I would not have been particularly happy to participate in such roleplays (the B.Z. article shows to examples of the situations for the roleplays).

I would have probably found it hilarious. Then again I never did try to counter the occasional rumour in the last years of HS that I was gay, though I ain't. I just don't understand feeling threatened in your sexuality. I find it very amusing how uncomfortable it makes some people though.

[Ser Clegane]

I would have probably found it hilarious.

That's how I would probably feel about it now - but as a 14 year old in the mid 80s ...

[Adrian II]

wow. If someone tried to do that here he would get pumped full of lead.

You mean Texas has schools 'n teachers 'n stuff?

Anyway, look at these Gay Texas links, there must be at least ten thousand. They have even had a gay rodeo going on for decades. Yeehaw.

[doc_bean]

That's how I would probably feel about it now - but as a 14 year old in the mid 80s ...

What ? Wasn't popular culture all about sexual ambiguousness in the 80s ?

[Ser Clegane]

What ? Wasn't popular culture all about sexual ambiguousness in the 80s ?

Not in my school, it wasn't

[Strike For The South]

You mean Texas has schools 'n teachers 'n stuff?

Anyway, look at these Gay Texas links, there must be at least ten thousand. They have even had a gay rodeo going on for decades. Yeehaw.

Oh no were accepting. They can do whatever they want in the privacy of there own home or with each other but as soon as you try to force it on us we take offense as soon as you try to force on our children we will kill you. Thats what happening in this school. Imagine if the teacher was a froigener

[Louis VI the Fat]

Imagine if the teacher was a froigener

Wait, is that a Freudian slip? Did you equate the words 'gay foreigner' and 'frog' in your mind!?


As to this topic: Gah! If this were real life bar, Adrian and I would by now be giving a mock live sex show on the table just to shock all you homophobes.