Chastity Ring Story
Is this news worthy?
Is it Christian, or a fad?
Should she be allowed to wear the ring?
Anyone know anything else about this subject?
Chastity Ring Story
Is this news worthy?
Is it Christian, or a fad?
Should she be allowed to wear the ring?
Anyone know anything else about this subject?
"Nietzsche is dead" - God
"I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96
Re: Pursuit of happiness
Have you just been dumped?
I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.
Meh, it's more like a uniform/dress code vs stuff-that-aren't-allowed conflict.
I say she go for it. She says it's Christian then it's Christian. If you give religious freedom over the uniform thing then give it equally -- however, if the school's uniform policy is...uniformly enforced, then she's standing on a less firm ground.
Of course, opinions like "forces of secularism attack Christianity" isn't my way of thinking, but who am I to put that bias above equality(tm)?
Does anybody else find the whole purity ritual, what with daddy taking daughter to a special prom where she pledges herself to him ... I dunno, a little ... uh ... creepy? It has the slightest bit of a NAMBLA vibe to it ...
Payback..."At my school Muslims are allowed to wear headscarves and other faiths can wear bangles and other types of jewellery and it feels like Christians are being discriminated against," Playfoot told BBC Radio 4’s Today program.
Seriously though, I don't see why she should't be allowed to wear it. It is a religious statement, no different to wearing a necklace with a cross.
Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
I applaud her for standing up for morality, that is rare in this day and age.
The father was absolutely 100% correct to state ": "I think what is happening in our culture more generally is that what I would describe as secular fundamentalism is coming to the fore, which really wants to silence certain beliefs and Christian views in particular"
I hope the girl wins a lot of money from the school trying to force fornication and promiscuity down their youths' throats. Of course the article doesn't say whether she is going after money in the case that has been filed. If not, she should file a second lawsuit also and sue for every penny the disgusting school has.
Im going to start wearing an anti purity ring not becuase I want to look like a ba (albeit a good side effect) but becuase I want to run through the halls of my school challinging other students with purity rings to epic battles.
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
This is actually a more valuable story than you might have thought SFTS.
Without arguing the ethics of pre-marital sex, I would comment that an indiviual's right to express worship is paramount. I find it especially interesting that because her form of worship is not mainstream, it may be sidelined (as a matter of argument). This is the very definition of free speech: allowing the fringe minority with whom you disagree the right to speak and express themselves.
The real gray line is whether someone is allowed to, say, set themselves on fire in public. But this one seems pretty simple to me.
I agree. I'm not quite sure that I would go so far as to say the right is paramount - religions can often be exclusive or confrontational to other belief systems, so there has to be some checks and balances that preserve the rights of other people from assault through religious iconography.Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
Nonetheless freedom to worship and express one's belief is a fundamental human right, and sensible rules to allow diversity should be easy enough to implement. A ring is a subtle and non-confrontational choice.
I do think she would have to take it off when playing rugger though.
"If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
Albert Camus "Noces"
Can any religious group wear whatever they want then, as long as its religious?
I see this as a reason why Britain should not sign up to that facile law on Human Rights. Freedom to express one's religious beliefs is IMO NOT a right. Druids were keen on human skulls. Is that OK then? It must be as we are bieng equal to all.
If the school has dress codes, then get the school to alter them. Don't force changes on them.
An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
"If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill
Well, I support her fight against dress codes, as I see that as a ridiculous thing. However, I don't support her "morality" claim at all...
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Ah the purity ring , thats the ones who are six times more likely to take a back door delivery to preserve their virginity than those who don't take the plege isn't it .
Banquo do you remember thegroup who came to Ireland last year promoting the pledge ?
In cannot remember if it was SRT or TLW but their leader was a strange thing called a born again virgin
This is an interesting question, for me I don't think that she should have the right to wear it. I don't support Muslim girls wearing the veil, I admit I'm not keen on the Hijab either but I can more that live with it.
Rather like the veil this ring is a DON'T TOUCH ME YOU ! sign and quite frankly, as a man, that offends me.
A mainstreem declaration of her faith on the other hand is entirely her choice and when boys ask her if she wants to have sex she can say no. A ring is far less likely to stop them asking than a good reputation.
Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 06-24-2007 at 11:43. Reason: Colourful language :-P
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
I do remember - an odd concept, but really no odder than some of the stuff the bish likes to tell me.Originally Posted by Tribesman
Personally, I think the idea of "purity" in this sense is an unfortunate concept antithetical to social development, but it's a perfectly reasonable moral and practical stance and if born out of religious conviction, I can't see any problem with it, nor tokens to denote said commitment.
You must have missed the part where I noted that religious rights, like all human rights, must be subject to the test that they do not infringe unfairly on other people's rights. But freedom of expression is a fundamental human right, and that includes the right to express one's religious beliefs. If you think human rights law is facile, that's your right.Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
If the girl insisted on wearing a t-shirt to school with Mrs Thatcher's face and a slogan to vote Conservative, I would support her choice being banned. If she wore a small lapel pin of the party emblem on her uniform blazer, I would encourage it. Religious conviction is no different.
Diversity of opinion is essential to a democracy, and allowing young people to promote their opinion, defend and discuss it, is essential to education and their development. I would argue it is a duty of any school to allow such a ring, to expose others to new ideas.
To restrict freedom of conscience and speech by banning symbols is the province of that political correctness so widely disparaged. What's next, Arsenal shirts during playtime?
"If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
Albert Camus "Noces"
If rings in general are banned, I don't see why we should make an exception for this. If I was wearing a ring because it symbolised my unity with the confederation of pixies, I doubt anyone would care if the school told me to take it off, and this is about as valid. If you let this through, you might as well kiss goodbye to uniform regulations as everyone just claims exceptions on the grounds that their "religion" forbids them from wearing/requires them to wear certain items.
As far as the purity thing goes, if this girl wants to deny herself the BKS experience that's her loss, baby.
Last edited by Big King Sanctaphrax; 06-24-2007 at 13:14.
Co-Lord of BKS and Beirut's Kingdom of Peace and Love.
"Handsome features, rugged exteriors, intellectual chick magnets, we're pretty much twins."-Beirut
"Rhy, where's your helicopter now? Where's your ******* helicopter now?"-Mephistopheles.
Well, just to play devil's advocate here, I frequently hear the argument made in the Backroom "the only reason you're opposed is your silly, superstitious religious beliefs, and that invalidates your argument".Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
Following along in that vein, what about all the young lads around that won't be able to get their mojo working with the Bearer of the Ring? Don't young gents at her school have a right to sexual expression? Shouldn't they have the right to try to talk their way into her pants? If the only argument against fornication is religous creeds, then not only should we allow it, we should encourage it, possibly even mandate it, just to put an end to this silly religious mumbo jumbo.
I'm curious to see what all you "religion should be banned" types have to say to that (and I know who you are).
"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.
"Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
Strike for the South
If headscarves are allowed, which are no more an essential part of faith, then why not this ring?
Ah well, she's probably ugly anyway.
"The facts of history cannot be purely objective, since they become facts of history only in virtue of the significance attached to them by the historian." E.H. Carr
From what I understand of the case, other students are permitted to wear bangles and unobstrusive items of jewellery. Students of other religions are permitted to wear the nijab or turban.Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax
You overstate the case to make your point. I am not arguing that anything goes under tha banner of religion, but that small variations to the uniform code should be allowed, especially when expressing a belief or conviction. Belief in pixies not excluded, but wearing a pixie hat to express your faith may be pushing the boundary as it is likely you are doing so to provoke - but, since I allow that a Sikh may wear a turban, I would find it difficult to ban your pixie hat if you wore it with the same dedication and devotion.
To exaggerate back, your position on uniformity should end up with all hairstyles being regulation short back and sides, and for the girls too.
"If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
Albert Camus "Noces"
Funny you should say that. I had to have a short back and sides at the school I attended. It was the rules. The girls school (St. Trinians) just down the road didn't enforce such a code. Anyway they got to wear Straw Boaters.
If it's the uniform rule, then she has to take it off. Oh! and how many times? School is for learning. If you want to indoctrinate your kids, send them to the church/temple/mosque.
Am I on that list of yours Don
There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.
"The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."
I heartily agree to that.Originally Posted by Don Corleone
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
At my school too. But then it was also mandatory to have a crucifix and wear a St Christopher medal.Originally Posted by InsaneApache
It's quite clearly not the uniform rule as other students may wear bangles etc.Originally Posted by InsaneApache
As I said, schools are for learning indeed, but learning also includes education about other's belief systems. A very large number of people in the world hold religious beliefs and it is sensible to expose children to seeing and learning about that.
I read nothing that indicates this young lady has been indoctrinated and no-one appears to be saying that all other students should be forced to do the same. Diversity is important for education, as is freedom of expression.
If the young lady were wearing a small red ribbon badge to promote AIDS awareness, or one of those plastic anti-poverty wrist bands, would we be quite so comfortable with a ban? What if she expressed an opinion by bringing a pad of clearly labelled recycled paper to school? Or requested a vegetarian option at lunch?
"If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
Albert Camus "Noces"
exactly!Originally Posted by Tribesman
but hey.....whatever works for them......I can´t complain....
"yes dear....you´re still a virgin after this ..just remember....NO TEETH!"
"If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
-Josh Homme
"That's the difference between me and the rest of the world! Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!"
- Calvin
I support the girl: clearly marking those girls who are not only single but also untouched and pure, can only be a good thing - for both the women and the men, no matter religion. It simplifies match making by preventing people from wasting time on making contact with an already occupied person.
Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 06-24-2007 at 17:14.
Under construction...
"In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore
I've got two thoughts. The first is, that if they allow Turbans and bangles, then they can not forbid this ring. Nor in fact any religious symbol.
Serves the schoolboard right for their PC, and I love how their disciminatory policy has backfired.
But my overriding thought is that the policy of this school discriminates in favour of expression of religious beliefs over all others. Why, as soon as somebody cries religion, should all normal regulation be suspended?
I really don't see why religious beliefs should be considered more important than secular opinions. Steven Seagals music meant a lot to me when I was fifteen, it got me trough a rough period. He was my hero. My saviour. But I bet they wouldn't have allowed me to wear the pony tail and Aikido black belt I wore daily to worship him.
Therefore the rule of this school should in my opinion be to either allow every expression of personal conviction, or none at all. Not this allowance of religious expression, because that should somehow be more important than other expressions.
One more thing. 'The school denies her claims, arguing that the purity ring is not an integral part of the Christian faith'.
If a school makes itself the judge of what's an integral part of which religion, they'll be in trouble indefinately.
As I say with all these issues, no matter what the item or the creed of the wearer, if the school says "no" and you don't like it, then find another school.
"Put 'em in blue coats, put 'em in red coats, the bastards will run all the same!"
"The English are a strange people....They came here in the morning, looked at the wall, walked over it, killed the garrison and returned to breakfast. What can withstand them?"
Gah, you amateur! You're not going to be deterred by a simple chastity ring, are you!? If they don't want pre-marital sex, then simply explain to the girl that you and her will never ever get married, and that therefore your sex logically is not pre-marital.Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
Your logic is flawless! I feel ashamed of myself for not seeing such a simple truth when it should be self-evident to anyone fluent in English.Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
If you're fighting fair you've made a miscalculation.
If she can wear her ring to school, I should be allowed to smoke marijuana, because it holds religious significance for me.
(It really does, by the way.)
I don't know where you want to school, but I distinctly remember the teacher in health class telling us the own sure way not to get STDS and get a girl pregnant was not to have any sexual contact at all. That doesn't really sound like fornication and promiscuity is forced down anyone's throat.
I hope the girl wins a lot of money from the school trying to force fornication and promiscuity down their youths' throats.
Oh, it's so very hard not to call you by some other names my friend. You are always full of, (using a friendly word), hot air.
Yes, disgusting, she can't wear a ring. She can still not have sex before she is married. It's a school dress code, not discrimination.Of course the article doesn't say whether she is going after money in the case that has been filed. If not, she should file a second lawsuit also and sue for every penny the disgusting school has.
At least it's comforting to know that other industrialized countries have religious nuts too.
Last edited by Ice; 06-25-2007 at 06:30.
I think that she should be able to wear the ring, and that the school has no right to define what is christian and what is not. If she thinks the ring expresses christian beliefs she has every right to wear it. And besides it's only a ring, it's not like anyone's gonna notice it except for some nitpicky teacher on a power trip anyways.
Also, what is the point in school uniforms? I know that supposedly if kids were allowed to wear their own clothes to school it would create a "distraction", but I go to a school were there are no uniforms and any attention problems I have come from my ADHD and lack of breakfast, not from everyone's clothes.
Louis' view is merely the classic Liberal position that no form of expression should be privileged because it is (deemed to be) religious. It makes perfect sense, but sense is no argument in this religion-infested world of ours.
Ayatollahs to the left me / Reborns to the right, here I am / stuck in the middle with Louis.
Not that I mind.
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
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